|Christian Schneider||Nov 4, 2003 3:32 pm||.patch|
|Rasmus Lerdorf||Nov 4, 2003 5:06 pm|
|Ken Tossell||Nov 4, 2003 5:09 pm|
|Andi Gutmans||Nov 5, 2003 12:49 am|
|Michael Walter||Nov 5, 2003 12:59 am|
|Michael Walter||Nov 5, 2003 1:03 am|
|Kouber Saparev||Nov 5, 2003 1:47 am|
|Christian Schneider||Nov 5, 2003 2:06 am|
|s0niX||Nov 5, 2003 2:43 am|
|Ford, Mike [LSS]||Nov 5, 2003 3:20 am|
|Mike Robinson||Nov 5, 2003 3:26 am|
|Dirkjan Ochtman||Nov 5, 2003 3:45 am|
|Cesare D'Amico||Nov 5, 2003 4:02 am|
|Alexey Trunyov||Nov 5, 2003 4:34 am|
|Antony Dovgal||Nov 5, 2003 4:59 am|
|Marco Tabini||Nov 5, 2003 5:04 am|
|Ilia Alshanetsky||Nov 5, 2003 5:06 am|
|Magnus Määttä||Nov 5, 2003 5:07 am|
|Derick Rethans||Nov 5, 2003 5:18 am|
|Christian Schneider||Nov 5, 2003 7:34 am|
|Nicolas Toper||Nov 5, 2003 7:47 am|
|Ilia Alshanetsky||Nov 5, 2003 7:56 am|
|Antony Dovgal||Nov 5, 2003 8:03 am|
|Rasmus Lerdorf||Nov 5, 2003 8:21 am|
|Christian Schneider||Nov 5, 2003 8:30 am|
|Andrey Hristov||Nov 5, 2003 8:40 am|
|Ilia Alshanetsky||Nov 5, 2003 8:47 am|
|Andi Gutmans||Nov 5, 2003 8:47 am|
|Jani Taskinen||Nov 5, 2003 8:49 am|
|Ford, Mike [LSS]||Nov 5, 2003 8:50 am|
|Marco Tabini||Nov 5, 2003 8:52 am|
|Christian Schneider||Nov 5, 2003 8:54 am|
|George Schlossnagle||Nov 5, 2003 8:58 am|
|Jani Taskinen||Nov 5, 2003 8:59 am|
|Christian Schneider||Nov 5, 2003 9:00 am|
|Ford, Mike [LSS]||Nov 5, 2003 9:00 am|
|Marco Tabini||Nov 5, 2003 9:01 am|
|Marco Tabini||Nov 5, 2003 9:05 am|
|Ford, Mike [LSS]||Nov 5, 2003 9:07 am|
|Ford, Mike [LSS]||Nov 5, 2003 9:09 am|
|Marco Tabini||Nov 5, 2003 9:18 am|
|Romans Malinovskis||Nov 5, 2003 9:19 am|
|Andi Gutmans||Nov 5, 2003 9:20 am|
|Steph||Nov 5, 2003 9:25 am|
|Andrey Hristov||Nov 5, 2003 9:25 am|
|Ilia Alshanetsky||Nov 5, 2003 9:25 am|
|Marco Tabini||Nov 5, 2003 9:30 am|
|Derick Rethans||Nov 5, 2003 9:33 am|
|40 later messages|
|Subject:||Re: [PHP-DEV] Proposal: Array syntax|
|From:||Antony Dovgal (tony...@phpclub.net)|
|Date:||Nov 5, 2003 8:03:40 am|
On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:34:52 +0100 Christian Schneider <csch...@cschneid.com> wrote:
I'm just trying to improve PHP. And I write _a lot_ of PHP code, so I have some idea about where the syntax could be improved IMHO.
changing the syntax is not the best way imho.
PHP is a mix of C, Perl and other styles anyway, why deny it? It's strength is that it's a pragmatic and simple language but that doesn't mean that nothing should be changed ever.
because PHP is PHP.
in C you can use assembler code insertions, but it doesn't mean, that PHP's
strength should be powered by allowing assembler insertions. if in Python you can create new array, using $a = ;, it doesn't mean, that PHP
should be able to do it in the same way.
I don't want to break existing programs. And I don't care about range() (or even list() too much for that matter), I just recognize the fact the I'm using a lot of array() and it is both unnecessarily hard to write _and_ read. Saying that array() works well and  is incomprehensible just does not match my experience. Both for myself (some years of programming experience) and for newbies. I saw no difference teaching people to initialize an array with array() or . Someone new to programming has to memorize that he has to write $a = array() (and not $a = new array() for example) anyway, $a =  would be just as easy IMHO.
this is very confusing way to improve PHP.
you will type 2 symbols instead of 7, but you forget, that you use almost same
syntax for indexing arrays. do you agree, that $a = ''; and $a = ; look almost similar for newbies?
any reasons to change such fundamental things just because version number changes from 4 to 5.
So why was the whole private/public/static/throw/catch thing introduced? Following your logic people who want this should use Java. I'm much more worried about code getting unreadable because of these extensions actually. It turned PHP into a much more complex language but since it is all optional I don't mind. But to deny some simple (and backward compatible) syntactic sugar to people who just want an easy to use language seems missing the point to me.
you're misrepresenting my words.
PHP didn't have some kind of private/public/static/throw/catch before.
and you're trying to invent new kind of wheel, 'cause you think common model of
wheel is "ugly".
I like some of the Python syntax. But some of it is cumbersome. Same with PHP. But I think PHP is closer to what I want so what's wrong with trying to improve it where it's possible (and easily done)?
agree, and you can easily make PHP code not readable with such improvements.
again, I can't understand why PHP should have another way of creating new
arrays. there are so many things you can improve in PHP - why did you choose to change
so, I'm still strongly against such improvements.
--- WBR, Antony Dovgal aka tony2001 tony...@phpclub.net