|28 earlier messages|
|Juan Linietsky||Jan 7, 2012 3:24 pm|
|Campbell Barton||Jan 7, 2012 6:44 pm|
|skoti||Jan 8, 2012 1:57 am|
|Juan Linietsky||Jan 8, 2012 3:30 pm|
|angj...@gulftel.com||Jan 8, 2012 4:34 pm|
|Juan Linietsky||Jan 8, 2012 7:16 pm|
|Juan Linietsky||Jan 8, 2012 9:36 pm|
|Kalle-Samuli Riihikoski||Jan 8, 2012 9:54 pm|
|Campbell Barton||Jan 8, 2012 9:56 pm|
|François T.||Jan 9, 2012 12:26 am|
|Ton Roosendaal||Jan 9, 2012 2:43 am|
|Sebastian||Jan 9, 2012 3:09 am|
|Peter Amstutz||Jan 9, 2012 5:37 am|
|Domino Marama||Jan 9, 2012 5:50 am|
|Juan Linietsky||Jan 9, 2012 6:07 am|
|Domino Marama||Jan 9, 2012 7:53 am|
|spatial||Jan 9, 2012 2:52 pm|
|Campbell Barton||Jan 9, 2012 3:37 pm|
|Ton Roosendaal||Jan 10, 2012 2:14 am|
|johannes amorosa||Jan 10, 2012 3:29 am|
|spatial||Jan 10, 2012 3:57 am|
|François T.||Jan 10, 2012 5:57 am|
|Juan Linietsky||Jan 10, 2012 1:47 pm|
|Daniel Salazar - 3Developer.com||Jan 10, 2012 1:52 pm|
|Juha Mäki-Kanto||Jan 15, 2012 3:21 am|
|Juan Linietsky||Jan 15, 2012 6:10 am|
|Sebastian||Jan 15, 2012 6:23 am|
|Juha Mäki-Kanto||Jan 15, 2012 11:37 am|
|Subject:||Re: [Bf-committers] Collada importer/exporter kickout|
|From:||Juha Mäki-Kanto (kisk...@gmail.com)|
|Date:||Jan 15, 2012 3:21:00 am|
That being said, would be helpful if someone could give a concrete example of how the exporter-side fails when skinning (not "bones look different after collada" * ) or the error in my logic. From looking at the files produced the animation matrices should be correctly parent space.
* Bones may look different after import/export if they are interpreted as lines between joints (where a leaf-bone doesn't have a well defined orientation) or bones just are on different axis.
2012/1/14 Juha Mäki-Kanto <kisk...@gmail.com>
Did some digging into this -> armature animation vs
From testing and looking at the code Blender imports and uses animation curves directly which isn't good. It'll only match the original in special circumstances like if the rotation difference between bone's restpose vs parent's restpose is identity and you're only animating rotations. For Second Life there is actually a trick to set all restbones to be positive Y-axis (identity matrix) which apparently then loads correctly there.
It seems that 2.59 did export/import for armatures correctly
(#29082<http://projects.blender.org/tracker/?group_id=9&atid=498&func=detail&aid=29082>); tested it and the eulers in the file were interpreted to be quaternions (and the animation works) so the previous system was somewhat aware of this caveat.
The gist to me is that collada's transformations may not match a program's internal representation and reinterpreting usually goes via collada data to full matrix, possibly fix the matrix and then decomposite to curves. It's a lossy conversion, key's should match but interpolation won't -> you need to bake/key every frame when importing the curves.
2012/1/11 Sebastian <seba...@opencollada.org>
Is there a list containing all COLLADA related bugs somewhere? There are only a few, some of them very unspecific, on the 2.6 bug tracker.
On 11.01.2012 11:06, Ton Roosendaal wrote:
You can count on plenty of people jumping on a patch if you publish it.
Don't understimate the power of having many eyes looking. If it requires more expertise or IO experience, Campbell is around to check on it too.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ton Roosendaal Blender Foundation to...@blender.org www.blender.org Blender Institute Entrepotdok 57A 1018AD Amsterdam The Netherlands
On 10 Jan, 2012, at 23:39, Juan Linietsky wrote:
Heh I wanted to emphasize that it works, but I seriously do need to work with someone familiar with writing blender and/or blender import plugins in C++ to do it, who can take my code and adapt it to Blender. It should be a short task for someone with that experience.
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Daniel Salazar - 3Developer.com< zan...@gmail.com> wrote:
That sounds *very* exciting and *very* appropriate for our needs :) OC ads too much weight to Blender's big ass
Daniel Salazar 3Developer.com
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Juan Linietsky<redu...@gmail.com> wrote:
I didn't realize a collada exporter was so important. If so..
I have a *very* *tested* and *very* *small* collada importer in my middleware stuff (~3k lines of C++ code). It supports pretty much everything (models, skeletons, materials, cameras, lights, morphs, any-axis orientation, animations with matrices or curves, etc).
Given it's very small size and non-dependency on OC, it's very easy to understand and *very easy to mantain*. It pretty much just ignores conformance of input files and just attempts to grab wathever data it needs so *compatibility is extremely high*.
It's not a standalone library, but it's separated enough that *if someone knowledgable of blender internals *wants to give a try to adapting it to blender (of course with me 100% available for answering questions with this), i think in a matter of a few hours we can solve the Blender problem of collada import support. However as I said in previous mails, I really lack the time to get familiar with Blender internals and do this myself.
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Erwin Coumans<
Until Blender has good fbx import or an alternative collada import (python?) it would be good to postpone dropping OpenCollada.
From the feedback, some people are using the import feature, and
Let's hope someone stands up and fixes the issues in trunk, rather then branch. On Jan 10, 2012 2:15 AM, "Ton Roosendaal"<to...@blender.org> wrote:
The Collada conformance suite is not working, and working on it
motionbuilder). Blender would be the worst stakeholder for it even, since we have the awesome .blend :)
Much better stakeholders would be Linden Labs (2nd life), or
Daz? Three names of companies who make plenty of dollars with software licensing. Why don't they put an employee as developer in our team, to ensure Collada exports smoothly for their products?
I even wouldn't mind a (python) addon "Export to DazCollada, CryCollada, 2ndLifeCollada, etc. It's how collada has been designed to work anyway...
Ton Roosendaal Blender Foundation to...@blender.org www.blender.org Blender Institute Entrepotdok 57A 1018AD Amsterdam The Netherlands
On 10 Jan, 2012, at 0:25, Sebastian wrote:
COLLADA has a great conformance test suite at http://www.khronos.org/conformance/implementers/collada/
It's being made available for free and I've already seen Blender results uploaded some time ago.
On 09.01.2012 23:52, spatial wrote:
For the COLLADA community Blender is definitely one of the most important stakeholders to stop supporting COLLADA would make
DCC exchange even worse.
I agree. Not to mention all those who co use it alongside LW ,
I actually tried to avoid a discussion here since a long time, but topic is too important.
First, kicking out collada from blender doesn't help anyone. None
"common" interexchange formats is that reliable / support all features. To have at least a second format as a backup strategy, if a certain features arent't supported / have some unreliable results, is a "must have" in every cross application enviroment.
And btw, blenders FBX import is, from my experience, still not as reliable as it should be, to actually replace collada. (sorry,
no actual bashing... its already great what has been archived... especially if you consider that it is allways pain in the ass, to support such a complex exchange format)
We are currently discussing further financing of OpenCOLLADA and will spend more time the next months on bugfixing and conformance tests.
Sorry to say this, but this is one of the mayor reasons I have to
Conformance tests do only help a little to 0 The big _advantage_ fbx has, is a working reference application
No conformance test can actually be that foolproof to support all features and variations. So by this simple unoffical
doesn't work in maya - it is broken", users and developers have
platform to discuss errors / find workarounds. This greatly
"picking in the dark" situation all developers currently face with collada. Even if a dev doesn't have access to it, in a lot of
can track down problems reported by users who do provide a simple screenshot.
Could this collada reference application be Blender ? For me this is a very attractive idea, but also, I'm very aware
that I'm opening a can of worms I'm actually in no way in the right position to touch.
Anyway just my 2 cents on this. chris