atom feed130 messages in edu.ku.nhm.mailman.taxacomRe: [Taxacom] validation of taxon names
FromSent OnAttachments
Armand TurpelFeb 14, 2012 12:41 am 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 14, 2012 1:01 pm 
Armand TurpelFeb 15, 2012 12:59 am 
Roderic PageFeb 15, 2012 1:50 am 
Paul KirkFeb 15, 2012 1:55 am 
greg whitbreadFeb 15, 2012 5:05 am 
Chris ThompsonFeb 15, 2012 8:03 am 
David PattersonFeb 15, 2012 8:07 am 
Roderic PageFeb 15, 2012 9:12 am 
Doug YanegaFeb 15, 2012 10:40 am 
Paul KirkFeb 15, 2012 10:51 am 
Roderic PageFeb 15, 2012 11:23 am 
Armand TurpelFeb 15, 2012 11:39 am 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 15, 2012 12:47 pm 
Jim CroftFeb 15, 2012 1:06 pm 
Curtis ClarkFeb 15, 2012 5:49 pm 
Tony...@csiro.auFeb 15, 2012 7:19 pm 
Roderic PageFeb 15, 2012 10:18 pm 
Jim CroftFeb 15, 2012 10:29 pm 
Armand TurpelFeb 16, 2012 5:12 am 
Roderic PageFeb 16, 2012 8:24 am 
Doug YanegaFeb 16, 2012 9:45 am 
Chuck MillerFeb 16, 2012 11:57 am 
Bradley BoyleFeb 16, 2012 2:45 pm 
Richard ZanderFeb 16, 2012 3:10 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 16, 2012 3:24 pm 
Frederick W. SchuelerFeb 16, 2012 3:31 pm 
Chuck MillerFeb 16, 2012 4:14 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 16, 2012 4:28 pm 
Chris ThompsonFeb 16, 2012 7:05 pm 
Kim van der LindeFeb 16, 2012 7:13 pm 
Neal EvenhuisFeb 16, 2012 7:27 pm 
Kim van der LindeFeb 16, 2012 7:38 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 16, 2012 7:40 pm 
muscapaulFeb 17, 2012 12:16 am 
Dr Brian TaylorFeb 17, 2012 12:23 am 
Armand TurpelFeb 17, 2012 1:25 am 
Chris ThompsonFeb 17, 2012 7:03 am 
Chris ThompsonFeb 17, 2012 11:23 am 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 17, 2012 1:09 pm 
Chris ThompsonFeb 17, 2012 2:04 pm 
Tony...@csiro.auFeb 17, 2012 2:32 pm 
Richard PyleFeb 17, 2012 2:51 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 17, 2012 3:16 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 17, 2012 3:18 pm 
Richard PyleFeb 17, 2012 3:22 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 17, 2012 3:37 pm 
Richard PyleFeb 17, 2012 5:06 pm 
Tony...@csiro.auFeb 17, 2012 5:18 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 17, 2012 5:27 pm 
Curtis ClarkFeb 17, 2012 7:39 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 17, 2012 8:04 pm 
Richard ZanderFeb 18, 2012 9:26 am 
Richard ZanderFeb 18, 2012 9:59 am 
Richard PyleFeb 18, 2012 11:33 am 
Curtis ClarkFeb 18, 2012 6:45 pm 
Richard PyleFeb 18, 2012 8:59 pm 
Paul van RijckevorselFeb 19, 2012 12:36 am 
Roderic PageFeb 19, 2012 5:48 am 
Paul van RijckevorselFeb 19, 2012 7:36 am 
Roderic PageFeb 19, 2012 8:09 am 
Paul van RijckevorselFeb 19, 2012 8:58 am 
Curtis ClarkFeb 19, 2012 8:59 am 
Curtis ClarkFeb 19, 2012 9:49 am 
Frederick W. SchuelerFeb 19, 2012 10:29 am 
Richard PyleFeb 19, 2012 12:14 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 19, 2012 12:45 pm 
Bob MesibovFeb 19, 2012 2:23 pm 
Walker, KenFeb 19, 2012 2:36 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 19, 2012 2:38 pm 
Bob MesibovFeb 19, 2012 2:54 pm 
Stephen ThorpeFeb 19, 2012 2:56 pm 
Walker, KenFeb 19, 2012 3:08 pm 
57 later messages
Subject:Re: [Taxacom] validation of taxon names
From:Chuck Miller (Chuc@mobot.org)
Date:Feb 16, 2012 11:57:08 am
List:edu.ku.nhm.mailman.taxacom

Dear Rod,

I would propose to extend your phrase to "person(s) x in publication y asserted
that two names are synonyms or lexical variants of each other" The assertion of
related names occurs in a publication by that/those person(s). Publication y's
assertion should just be an objective fact and immutable.

But, the sticky wicket comes when point 6 is posed: "Which of all the related
names is the best one to use to refer to the organism right now"? The issue of
best is invariably subjective.

Chuck

-----Original Message----- From: Roderic Page [mailto:r.p@bio.gla.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 1:24 PM To: taxacom Subject: Re: [Taxacom] validation of taxon names

Dear Doug,

Regarding

#4 is something that cannot be objectively determined, because synonymy is almost invariably subjective.

presumably the fact that person x asserted that two names are synonyms can be
determined objectively, and that's all we need to know.

Regards

Rod

On 15 Feb 2012, at 18:40, Doug Yanega wrote:

I would observe that, for zoological names, of the following list:

1. Is this a name? 2. Is this the correct way to write it? 3. Is this name currently in use? 4. What other names are related to this name (e.g., synonyms, lexical variants)? 5. Where was this name published? Can I see that publication?

at least 1 and 5 are questions for which an objective and definitive answer (via application of the ICZN for #1) can be arrived at, and that the answer will not change. Thus, these are things which could be made part of a permanent public archive (hopefully, something like ZooBank).

#2 and 3 are things that can, in essence, be objectively determined under the Code, but are subject to the nuance of "prevailing usage" - that is, a sudden change in how taxonomists treat a name can shift the answer from "no" to "yes" (in both cases) or from "yes" to "no" (for #2). One hope that I have is that a mechanism for Registration can be implemented in the future which will prevent such fluctuation, and thus make the answers to 2 and 3 immutable, as well.

#4 is something that cannot be objectively determined, because synonymy is almost invariably subjective.

Realistically, then, this list represents a mixed bag of the immediately attainable, the potentially attainable, and the unattainable. It might be more productive to focus on the former categories, in terms of a community-wide goal. I'll further note that if taxonomists want a system of Registration that will result in permanently stable names, then they are probably going to have to insist upon it, *and* be willing to participate in the process (because such a process is likely to require public review). I'm not 100% sure whether botanical names would work exactly the same way, but I expect that the situation would be pretty much the same.

Peace,

--

Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314 skype: dyanega phone: (951) 827-4315 (standard disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's) http://cache.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82

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--------------------------------------------------------- Roderic Page Professor of Taxonomy Institute of Biodiversity, Animal Health and Comparative Medicine College of
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