| From | Sent On | Attachments |
|---|---|---|
| Armand Turpel | Feb 14, 2012 12:41 am | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 14, 2012 1:01 pm | |
| Armand Turpel | Feb 15, 2012 12:59 am | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 15, 2012 1:50 am | |
| Paul Kirk | Feb 15, 2012 1:55 am | |
| greg whitbread | Feb 15, 2012 5:05 am | |
| Chris Thompson | Feb 15, 2012 8:03 am | |
| David Patterson | Feb 15, 2012 8:07 am | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 15, 2012 9:12 am | |
| Doug Yanega | Feb 15, 2012 10:40 am | |
| Paul Kirk | Feb 15, 2012 10:51 am | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 15, 2012 11:23 am | |
| Armand Turpel | Feb 15, 2012 11:39 am | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 15, 2012 12:47 pm | |
| Jim Croft | Feb 15, 2012 1:06 pm | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 15, 2012 5:49 pm | |
| Tony...@csiro.au | Feb 15, 2012 7:19 pm | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 15, 2012 10:18 pm | |
| Jim Croft | Feb 15, 2012 10:29 pm | |
| Armand Turpel | Feb 16, 2012 5:12 am | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 16, 2012 8:24 am | |
| Doug Yanega | Feb 16, 2012 9:45 am | |
| Chuck Miller | Feb 16, 2012 11:57 am | |
| Bradley Boyle | Feb 16, 2012 2:45 pm | |
| Richard Zander | Feb 16, 2012 3:10 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 16, 2012 3:24 pm | |
| Frederick W. Schueler | Feb 16, 2012 3:31 pm | |
| Chuck Miller | Feb 16, 2012 4:14 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 16, 2012 4:28 pm | |
| Chris Thompson | Feb 16, 2012 7:05 pm | |
| Kim van der Linde | Feb 16, 2012 7:13 pm | |
| Neal Evenhuis | Feb 16, 2012 7:27 pm | |
| Kim van der Linde | Feb 16, 2012 7:38 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 16, 2012 7:40 pm | |
| muscapaul | Feb 17, 2012 12:16 am | |
| Dr Brian Taylor | Feb 17, 2012 12:23 am | |
| Armand Turpel | Feb 17, 2012 1:25 am | |
| Chris Thompson | Feb 17, 2012 7:03 am | |
| Chris Thompson | Feb 17, 2012 11:23 am | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 17, 2012 1:09 pm | |
| Chris Thompson | Feb 17, 2012 2:04 pm | |
| Tony...@csiro.au | Feb 17, 2012 2:32 pm | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 17, 2012 2:51 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 17, 2012 3:16 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 17, 2012 3:18 pm | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 17, 2012 3:22 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 17, 2012 3:37 pm | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 17, 2012 5:06 pm | |
| Tony...@csiro.au | Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 17, 2012 5:27 pm | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 17, 2012 7:39 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 17, 2012 8:04 pm | |
| Richard Zander | Feb 18, 2012 9:26 am | |
| Richard Zander | Feb 18, 2012 9:59 am | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 18, 2012 11:33 am | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 18, 2012 6:45 pm | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 18, 2012 8:59 pm | |
| Paul van Rijckevorsel | Feb 19, 2012 12:36 am | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 19, 2012 5:48 am | |
| Paul van Rijckevorsel | Feb 19, 2012 7:36 am | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 19, 2012 8:09 am | |
| Paul van Rijckevorsel | Feb 19, 2012 8:58 am | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 19, 2012 8:59 am | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 19, 2012 9:49 am | |
| Frederick W. Schueler | Feb 19, 2012 10:29 am | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 19, 2012 12:14 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 12:45 pm | |
| Bob Mesibov | Feb 19, 2012 2:23 pm | |
| Walker, Ken | Feb 19, 2012 2:36 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 2:38 pm | |
| Bob Mesibov | Feb 19, 2012 2:54 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 2:56 pm | |
| Walker, Ken | Feb 19, 2012 3:08 pm | |
| 57 later messages | ||
| Subject: | Re: [Taxacom] validation of taxon names | |
|---|---|---|
| From: | Chuck Miller (Chuc...@mobot.org) | |
| Date: | Feb 16, 2012 11:57:08 am | |
| List: | edu.ku.nhm.mailman.taxacom | |
Dear Rod,
I would propose to extend your phrase to "person(s) x in publication y asserted
that two names are synonyms or lexical variants of each other" The assertion of
related names occurs in a publication by that/those person(s). Publication y's
assertion should just be an objective fact and immutable.
But, the sticky wicket comes when point 6 is posed: "Which of all the related
names is the best one to use to refer to the organism right now"? The issue of
best is invariably subjective.
Chuck
-----Original Message----- From: Roderic Page [mailto:r.p...@bio.gla.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 1:24 PM To: taxacom Subject: Re: [Taxacom] validation of taxon names
Dear Doug,
Regarding
#4 is something that cannot be objectively determined, because synonymy is almost invariably subjective.
presumably the fact that person x asserted that two names are synonyms can be
determined objectively, and that's all we need to know.
Regards
Rod
On 15 Feb 2012, at 18:40, Doug Yanega wrote:
I would observe that, for zoological names, of the following list:
1. Is this a name? 2. Is this the correct way to write it? 3. Is this name currently in use? 4. What other names are related to this name (e.g., synonyms, lexical variants)? 5. Where was this name published? Can I see that publication?
at least 1 and 5 are questions for which an objective and definitive answer (via application of the ICZN for #1) can be arrived at, and that the answer will not change. Thus, these are things which could be made part of a permanent public archive (hopefully, something like ZooBank).
#2 and 3 are things that can, in essence, be objectively determined under the Code, but are subject to the nuance of "prevailing usage" - that is, a sudden change in how taxonomists treat a name can shift the answer from "no" to "yes" (in both cases) or from "yes" to "no" (for #2). One hope that I have is that a mechanism for Registration can be implemented in the future which will prevent such fluctuation, and thus make the answers to 2 and 3 immutable, as well.
#4 is something that cannot be objectively determined, because synonymy is almost invariably subjective.
Realistically, then, this list represents a mixed bag of the immediately attainable, the potentially attainable, and the unattainable. It might be more productive to focus on the former categories, in terms of a community-wide goal. I'll further note that if taxonomists want a system of Registration that will result in permanently stable names, then they are probably going to have to insist upon it, *and* be willing to participate in the process (because such a process is likely to require public review). I'm not 100% sure whether botanical names would work exactly the same way, but I expect that the situation would be pretty much the same.
Peace,
--
Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314 skype: dyanega phone: (951) 827-4315 (standard disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's) http://cache.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82
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---------------------------------------------------------
Roderic Page
Professor of Taxonomy
Institute of Biodiversity, Animal Health and Comparative Medicine College of
Medical, Veterinary and Life Sciences Graham Kerr Building University of Glasgow
Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK
Email: r.p...@bio.gla.ac.uk Tel: +44 141 330 4778 Fax: +44 141 330 2792 AIM: rodp...@aim.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1112517192 Twitter: http://twitter.com/rdmpage Blog: http://iphylo.blogspot.com Home page: http://taxonomy.zoology.gla.ac.uk/rod/rod.html
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The Taxacom archive going back to 1992 may be searched with either of these
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