| From | Sent On | Attachments |
|---|---|---|
| Donald Ramsbottom | Sep 20, 2000 11:55 pm | |
| Richard Clayton | Sep 21, 2000 6:40 am | |
| Richard Watts | Sep 21, 2000 8:16 am | |
| Neil Dunbar | Sep 21, 2000 9:28 am | |
| Owen Blacker | Sep 21, 2000 10:46 am | |
| Donald Ramsbottom | Sep 21, 2000 11:10 am | |
| John Young | Sep 21, 2000 11:29 am | |
| John Young | Sep 21, 2000 11:41 am | |
| Richard Clayton | Sep 21, 2000 1:25 pm | |
| Richard Clayton | Sep 21, 2000 1:30 pm | |
| Dave Bird | Sep 21, 2000 2:12 pm | |
| Donald Ramsbottom | Sep 22, 2000 12:52 am | |
| Paul Leyland | Sep 22, 2000 1:30 am | |
| Owen Blacker | Sep 22, 2000 2:09 am | |
| Roland Perry | Sep 22, 2000 2:20 am | |
| Roland Perry | Sep 22, 2000 2:25 am | |
| Jon Ribbens | Sep 22, 2000 3:45 am | |
| David Howe | Sep 22, 2000 3:56 am | |
| Charles Lindsey | Sep 22, 2000 4:05 am | |
| David Howe | Sep 22, 2000 4:20 am | |
| Owen Blacker | Sep 22, 2000 4:55 am | |
| David Swarbrick | Sep 22, 2000 5:12 am | |
| Donald Ramsbottom | Sep 22, 2000 5:24 am | |
| Donald Ramsbottom | Sep 22, 2000 8:32 am | |
| Dave Bird | Sep 22, 2000 11:22 am | |
| Donald Ramsbottom | Sep 23, 2000 7:35 am | |
| Owen Blacker | Sep 23, 2000 8:24 am | |
| Dave Howe | Sep 23, 2000 3:25 pm | |
| Dave Bird | Sep 23, 2000 4:26 pm | |
| Dave Howe | Sep 23, 2000 4:38 pm | |
| David Swarbrick | Sep 24, 2000 6:00 am | |
| David Swarbrick | Sep 24, 2000 6:00 am | |
| Paul Crowley | Sep 24, 2000 11:07 am | |
| Richard Watts | Sep 25, 2000 3:53 am | |
| Charles Lindsey | Sep 25, 2000 7:09 am | |
| David Swarbrick | Sep 25, 2000 10:40 am | |
| David Swarbrick | Sep 25, 2000 1:13 pm | |
| Philip Rowlands | Sep 25, 2000 2:04 pm | |
| Dave Bird | Sep 25, 2000 7:35 pm | |
| David Swarbrick | Sep 25, 2000 11:04 pm | |
| Charles Lindsey | Sep 26, 2000 1:59 am | |
| Pete Chown | Sep 26, 2000 2:38 am | |
| Richard Watts | Sep 26, 2000 9:40 am | |
| Richard Watts | Sep 26, 2000 9:45 am | |
| Dave Bird | Sep 26, 2000 11:42 am | |
| Dave Bird | Sep 26, 2000 12:26 pm | |
| David Swarbrick | Sep 27, 2000 3:01 am | |
| David Swarbrick | Sep 27, 2000 3:01 am | |
| Jon Ribbens | Sep 27, 2000 3:46 am | |
| Dave Bird | Sep 27, 2000 7:52 am | |
| Dave Bird | Sep 27, 2000 11:53 am | |
| Benjamin Geer | Sep 27, 2000 6:41 pm |
| Subject: | Re: Demon & DeCSS | |
|---|---|---|
| From: | Dave Bird (da...@xemu.demon.co.uk) | |
| Date: | Sep 27, 2000 7:52:27 am | |
| List: | uk.org.greenend.chiark.ukcrypto | |
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In article <000101c0286a$01b509a0$3d9b7ed4@compaq>, David Swarbrick <dav...@swarb.freeuk.com> writes
Not quite. Different considerations apply if the licence is for free and if it is for an under-value, but in insolvency law, anything less than full value is in principle capable of being set aside in some circumstances. Paying one pound makes a difference, but may not be conclusive.
OK. I can see that licensing is no use because it hangs upon my ownership. I can license you to "borrow my car any Friday afternoon" because it's my car, and I can say "but you must bring it back clean and undented" also because it's my car. (If you walk into the carpark and friendly Finance Ltd have repossessed then you can say "I have an arrangement to use that car", and they say "not with us you haven't").
Surely if I "give co-equal ownership of their version to anyone interested in having the document, with a wish that they will likewise pass on ownership to others" when I am fully entitled to.... I'm not already sitting on the debts which will likely result in bankruptcy.... then that is fairly irrevocable. Especially in the courts of their country.
Surely the bankruptcy courts cannot RETROSPECTIVELY set aside transfers made when the bankruptcy was neither in effect nor clearly probable. Especially the courts of the recipient's country are not likely to see him cheated in this way. I hear what you say that token payment may or may not succeed, it presents only an obstacle to be argued.
In article <000001c0286a$00541a10$3d9b7ed4@compaq>, David Swarbrick <dav...@swarb.freeuk.com> writes
There are several issues involved.
For this purpose, the user of software needs a continuing licence. He may have come to own version of the software, say on a CD, but since each time he runs it, it must be copied into memory, he needs a licence - either contractual or statutory, each time he does so. Is a licence executory, a promise not to object on each occasion in the future when the software is copied, or is complete at the time granted?
Is the grant by deed? This is the traditional way - in english law - of distinguishing between a gift which is revocable, and one which is not?
What is the purpose of the grant of licence? Any intent to defeat creditors may make teh gift defeasible.
Is the grantor insolvent at the time of the grant, or does he become so afterwards.
Is any consideration given?
What reliance is placed upon the promise?
It is likely also that a court will actually look at the practical reality of whether a licence could be revoked. What would be th ereal-life effect of any revocation?
thanks for clarifying the issues.
- -- ^-^-^-@@-^-;-^ http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/ (..)__u news:alt.smoking.mooses
happy as a clam at high tide -. <_" .-._.-.
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