atom feed52 messages in uk.org.greenend.chiark.ukcryptoRe: Demon & DeCSS
FromSent OnAttachments
Donald RamsbottomSep 20, 2000 11:55 pm 
Richard ClaytonSep 21, 2000 6:40 am 
Richard WattsSep 21, 2000 8:16 am 
Neil DunbarSep 21, 2000 9:28 am 
Owen BlackerSep 21, 2000 10:46 am 
Donald RamsbottomSep 21, 2000 11:10 am 
John YoungSep 21, 2000 11:29 am 
John YoungSep 21, 2000 11:41 am 
Richard ClaytonSep 21, 2000 1:25 pm 
Richard ClaytonSep 21, 2000 1:30 pm 
Dave BirdSep 21, 2000 2:12 pm 
Donald RamsbottomSep 22, 2000 12:52 am 
Paul LeylandSep 22, 2000 1:30 am 
Owen BlackerSep 22, 2000 2:09 am 
Roland PerrySep 22, 2000 2:20 am 
Roland PerrySep 22, 2000 2:25 am 
Jon RibbensSep 22, 2000 3:45 am 
David HoweSep 22, 2000 3:56 am 
Charles LindseySep 22, 2000 4:05 am 
David HoweSep 22, 2000 4:20 am 
Owen BlackerSep 22, 2000 4:55 am 
David SwarbrickSep 22, 2000 5:12 am 
Donald RamsbottomSep 22, 2000 5:24 am 
Donald RamsbottomSep 22, 2000 8:32 am 
Dave BirdSep 22, 2000 11:22 am 
Donald RamsbottomSep 23, 2000 7:35 am 
Owen BlackerSep 23, 2000 8:24 am 
Dave HoweSep 23, 2000 3:25 pm 
Dave BirdSep 23, 2000 4:26 pm 
Dave HoweSep 23, 2000 4:38 pm 
David SwarbrickSep 24, 2000 6:00 am 
David SwarbrickSep 24, 2000 6:00 am 
Paul CrowleySep 24, 2000 11:07 am 
Richard WattsSep 25, 2000 3:53 am 
Charles LindseySep 25, 2000 7:09 am 
David SwarbrickSep 25, 2000 10:40 am 
David SwarbrickSep 25, 2000 1:13 pm 
Philip RowlandsSep 25, 2000 2:04 pm 
Dave BirdSep 25, 2000 7:35 pm 
David SwarbrickSep 25, 2000 11:04 pm 
Charles LindseySep 26, 2000 1:59 am 
Pete ChownSep 26, 2000 2:38 am 
Richard WattsSep 26, 2000 9:40 am 
Richard WattsSep 26, 2000 9:45 am 
Dave BirdSep 26, 2000 11:42 am 
Dave BirdSep 26, 2000 12:26 pm 
David SwarbrickSep 27, 2000 3:01 am 
David SwarbrickSep 27, 2000 3:01 am 
Jon RibbensSep 27, 2000 3:46 am 
Dave BirdSep 27, 2000 7:52 am 
Dave BirdSep 27, 2000 11:53 am 
Benjamin GeerSep 27, 2000 6:41 pm 
Subject:Re: Demon & DeCSS
From:Dave Bird (da@xemu.demon.co.uk)
Date:Sep 27, 2000 7:52:27 am
List:uk.org.greenend.chiark.ukcrypto

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In article <000101c0286a$01b509a0$3d9b7ed4@compaq>, David Swarbrick <dav@swarb.freeuk.com> writes

Not quite. Different considerations apply if the licence is for free and if it is for an under-value, but in insolvency law, anything less than full value is in principle capable of being set aside in some circumstances. Paying one pound makes a difference, but may not be conclusive.

OK. I can see that licensing is no use because it hangs upon my ownership. I can license you to "borrow my car any Friday afternoon" because it's my car, and I can say "but you must bring it back clean and undented" also because it's my car. (If you walk into the carpark and friendly Finance Ltd have repossessed then you can say "I have an arrangement to use that car", and they say "not with us you haven't").

Surely if I "give co-equal ownership of their version to anyone interested in having the document, with a wish that they will likewise pass on ownership to others" when I am fully entitled to.... I'm not already sitting on the debts which will likely result in bankruptcy.... then that is fairly irrevocable. Especially in the courts of their country.

Surely the bankruptcy courts cannot RETROSPECTIVELY set aside transfers made when the bankruptcy was neither in effect nor clearly probable. Especially the courts of the recipient's country are not likely to see him cheated in this way. I hear what you say that token payment may or may not succeed, it presents only an obstacle to be argued.

In article <000001c0286a$00541a10$3d9b7ed4@compaq>, David Swarbrick <dav@swarb.freeuk.com> writes

There are several issues involved.

For this purpose, the user of software needs a continuing licence. He may have come to own version of the software, say on a CD, but since each time he runs it, it must be copied into memory, he needs a licence - either contractual or statutory, each time he does so. Is a licence executory, a promise not to object on each occasion in the future when the software is copied, or is complete at the time granted?

Is the grant by deed? This is the traditional way - in english law - of distinguishing between a gift which is revocable, and one which is not?

What is the purpose of the grant of licence? Any intent to defeat creditors may make teh gift defeasible.

Is the grantor insolvent at the time of the grant, or does he become so afterwards.

Is any consideration given?

What reliance is placed upon the promise?

It is likely also that a court will actually look at the practical reality of whether a licence could be revoked. What would be th ereal-life effect of any revocation?

thanks for clarifying the issues.

- -- ^-^-^-@@-^-;-^ http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/ (..)__u news:alt.smoking.mooses

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