atom feed7 messages in org.oasis-open.lists.kmipRE: [kmip] Groups - Application Speci...
FromSent OnAttachments
ski...@brocade.comMay 20, 2009 10:26 am 
Feather, Stan SJun 5, 2009 2:53 pm 
Frindell,AlanJun 9, 2009 9:20 am 
Rod WidemanJun 10, 2009 3:05 pm 
Robert HaasJun 11, 2009 6:52 am 
Feather, Stan SJun 11, 2009 7:23 am 
Rod WidemanJun 11, 2009 7:33 am 
Subject:RE: [kmip] Groups - Application Specific IDs (Application Specific IDs.pdf) modified
From:Rod Wideman (Rod.@quantum.com)
Date:Jun 11, 2009 7:33:49 am
List:org.oasis-open.lists.kmip

Understand. But for example, one could put a volume identifier (e.g., barcode label, serial number) for a removable medium (e.g., tape) in an Application Specific ID and a key ID that was used on that removable medium in the Name. Then the key could be located by either the App. Spec. ID indirectly, or by the key ID. However, duplicate volume identifiers may exist, so uniqueness in the key ID is a good thing.

It seems that the one salient difference is that Names need to be unique within the key management system, whereas App. Spec. IDs do not. In the particular case of key IDs, I was assuming they would also require the same level of uniqeness, but if not, then App. Spec. IDs would be fine.

thanks, Rod Wideman Quantum Corporation (please disregard the confidentiality statement below)

________________________________

From: Robert Haas [mailto:rh@zurich.ibm.com] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:52 AM To: Rod Wideman Cc: km@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: RE: [kmip] Groups - Application Specific IDs (Application Specific IDs.pdf) modified

Rod,

"Rod Wideman" <Rod.@quantum.com> wrote on 06/11/2009 12:06:10 AM:

It seems that the original intent of the Application Specific Identification attribute was to provide a way to describe how a managed cryptographic object is used, or to what it is associated (i.e., identify the application, not the object). I think this is still useful to have, in that objects can then be located that are associated with a particular application or usage.

The App-Specific ID allows applications to resolve the cryptographic object they needed, unless applications are directly using the KMIP Unique Identifier or KMIP Name. So the App-Specific ID not only identifies the application(s) using the object, but also provide the means for the application(s) to resolve back to that object.

For instance, the App-Specific ID may contain a filename of a file encrypted with the key. For tape encryption, the application may store its own Tape Key ID on the tape cartridge, hence the App-Specific ID would contain that same Tape Key ID.

The current discussion seems to be oriented around using this attribute as a means to assign an identifier to the object itself (e.g., in the case of Scott's proposal, a Key ID, which I think is similar to what Stan is describing as a key name). This then makes me wonder what the Name attribute should be used for, and whether it would make sense to add one or more additional Name Type enumerations of various "key ID" or "key name" variants to address that specific need, and let the Application Specific attribute continue to provide a way to associate the object with applications.

These identifiers (Key ID, key name) too are assigned to allow applications to resolve which cryptographic object they need. So they could fit under App-Specific IDs as well.

So far, in terms of identification, we have defined for each Object:

- a Unique Identifier, which is assigned by the server in a globally-unique fashion and is immutable.

- one or more Names, which can be assigned/modified by the client or server, and the server ensures Names are unique within a given key management domain. Both Unique Identifier and Names are KMIP constructs used primarily for the sake of KMIP operations. Names make it for instance easier for humans to manage objects than Unique Identifiers.

- one or more pairs of Application Name Space / Application Identifier that are set by applications on the client side (possibly involving the server if it is competent for that name space and if requested by the client, as proposed by Rene). But generally, this App-Specific ID is irrelevant to the KMIP server.

Applications may decide to directly use the KMIP Unique Identifier or KMIP Names to resolve Objects. Alternatively, if these KMIP constructs are not suitable (for instance, legacy reasons), the App-Specific ID can be used instead.

So for example, I might have a key that has a Name attribute and a Key ID name type. I use this key to encrypt files, so have Application Specific Id. attribute instances to describe the name space(s) of the files for which I use the key.

But I may use more than one key to encrypt files in those name spaces, so if I have another key (having its own Name attribute and different Key ID name type), then I could set the same Application Specific Id. attribute instances with it. Now I can locate all objects (i.e., keys) associated with that particular application usage.

So I see Name as referencing the object (i.e., pointing to it) and the Application Specific stuff pointing away from the object (i.e., where does it go). The need for "key id" seems to fit the Name attribute, but perhaps I'm missing something?

You can also see KMIP Name as a "direct" reference to the object, whereas App-Specific ID enables apps to resolve a reference in their own name space (such as filename, Tape Key ID, etc) to the actual KMIP Unique Identifier of the corresponding object.

I think it will depend on the particular use case whether it is more appropriate to have an application resolve the cryptographic object using the KMIP Unique Identifier, KMIP Name, or App-Specific ID.

Regards, -Robert

Thanks, Rod Wideman Quantum Corporation (please disregard the confidentiality statement below)

-----Original Message----- From: Feather, Stan S [mailto:stan@hp.com <mailto:stan@hp.com> ] Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 4:54 PM To: ski@brocade.com; km@lists.oasis-open.org; Rene Pawlitzek/Zurich/IBM Subject: RE: [kmip] Groups - Application Specific IDs (Application Specific IDs.pdf) modified

Scott, Renee

Here are my suggestions about your proposals, which involve changes to the same attribute. This attribute is also the subject of some pending usage guide proposals from HP, for key naming with streaming/removable media.

Scott, you propose multiple fields, up to 8. But as defined, the client can already create an arbitrary number of instances. Given that, do you think multiple ID attributes are still needed?

On Renee's proposal, I have these comments. First, I have some concerns about the 2nd paragraph "Clients can provide an instance....". Overall, it seems like a given instance of the attribute should be owned by the client, or the server, but not both. Mixing ownership of structure elements in a single instance seems to rely heavily on client-server integration details, and probably should be out of scope. But I may not understand the use case.

So I would suggest the 2nd paragraph be replaced with a simplification, to the effect that, a given instance of this attribute may be set by the client, or the server. Setting the attribute establishes ownership for that instance, for subsequent modifications or deletions.

Also, moving the examples to the Usage Guide is a great idea. Those could be extended with the examples in Scott's proposal.

As mentioned in the call yesterday, I expect to have a proposal soon with further Usage Guide changes for this attribute.

Stan Feather HP StorageWorks, R&D

-----Original Message----- From: ski@brocade.com [mailto:ski@brocade.com <mailto:ski@brocade.com> ] Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 11:27 AM To: km@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: [kmip] Groups - Application Specific IDs (Application Specific IDs.pdf) modified

Information about the document named Application Specific IDs (Application Specific IDs.pdf) has been modified by Scott Kipp.

Document Description: This proposal suggests to add more than one Applications Specific ID and change the name and definition to broaden its scope.

View Document Details: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/document.php?document_id=32335 <http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/document.php?document_id=32335>

Download Document:

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32335/Application%20Sp <http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32335/Application%20S p>

ecific%20IDs.pdf

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