32 messages in com.googlegroups.android-discuss[android-discuss] Re: Final SDK build...
FromSent OnAttachments
YA14 Jul 2008 15:04 
Shane Isbell14 Jul 2008 15:07 
John P.14 Jul 2008 15:13 
hitsu_g14 Jul 2008 15:56 
Seni Sangrujee14 Jul 2008 16:16 
Shane Isbell14 Jul 2008 16:31 
Michael Martin - MM Agency14 Jul 2008 17:31 
Hong14 Jul 2008 18:22 
plusminus15 Jul 2008 04:59 
plusminus15 Jul 2008 05:01 
Ken Adair15 Jul 2008 07:06 
Ken Adair15 Jul 2008 07:13 
Gies,Brad15 Jul 2008 07:58 
Ken Adair15 Jul 2008 08:19 
Hong15 Jul 2008 08:28 
Hong15 Jul 2008 08:30 
Ken Adair15 Jul 2008 10:19 
David McLaughlin (Android Advocate)15 Jul 2008 11:26 
Dan T.16 Jul 2008 02:56 
hitsu_g16 Jul 2008 20:07 
Ken Adair17 Jul 2008 14:02 
Ken Adair17 Jul 2008 14:10 
Ken Adair17 Jul 2008 14:10 
Ken Adair17 Jul 2008 14:13 
Shane Isbell17 Jul 2008 14:21 
Mark Murphy17 Jul 2008 16:51 
Shane Isbell17 Jul 2008 17:59 
Mark Murphy17 Jul 2008 18:32 
Shane Isbell17 Jul 2008 19:46 
hitsu_g18 Jul 2008 05:27 
Mark Murphy18 Jul 2008 11:09 
Shane Isbell18 Jul 2008 12:02 
Subject:[android-discuss] Re: Final SDK build available (84853) deadline extended to Tuesday, August 5
From:Shane Isbell (shan@gmail.com)
Date:07/17/2008 05:59:10 PM
List:com.googlegroups.android-discuss

I was looking for a change of the mobile ecosystem, with Google's leadership. But what we have is the same old, closed mobile ecosystem. It looks the same as Sprint J2ME developer's program back in 2002, generate a bunch of excitement from developers and once there were some initial apps, Sprint choose their vendors and the support went completely silent on the forums. The mindset is the same. And yes, J2ME (CDC/CLDC) did very well. Good for those on the inside track, miserable for the individual developer.

Don't get me wrong. If I were Google, I may do the same thing, focus all resources on getting the device out the door. But I'm not Google, I'm a developer, sitting there feeling cheated, lured into what seemed to be a thriving community before Google cut it off at the knees. What do I care if Google gets out a device in QIV of this year or QI of the next, if I'm on the outside, waiting, wondering if this is really the new mobile ecosystem, when it reeks of the old.

I don't have some grudge against Google, they can do what they want but when their interests and mine don't align, then it's time to move on and find something else. If Google somehow changes things and I think it's worth it, I'll jump back in. And as for open-source projects being a marathon, perhaps that's true but running blindly forward hoping that one is running in the right race or in the right direction may not be the wisest course; and don't forget Pheidippides didn't live through his marathon.

Shane

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Mark Murphy <mmur@commonsware.com> wrote:

These threads make me feel like Al Pacino: "Every time I try to get out, they keep pulling me back in"...

Shane Isbell wrote:

Google is closed

A drop of much of the source code is available in a repository and in tarballs. It runs on Linux. It has a free (pre-alpha) SDK. People have been able to take it and get it running on a variety of unsupported hardware, such as the Nokia N800/N810.

On the open spectrum, today, it is more open than Apple, Microsoft, Blackberry, or even Symbian. It is less open today than LiMo and OpenMoko. If -- *if* -- they keep their promises, it'll be as open as LiMo and OpenMoko by year's end. With luck, Symbian will wind up this open as well.

It is definitely more closed -- today -- than it was a few months ago. That is definitely worthy of angst and anger, but only to a point.

Google is not really even a leader anymore, they are following Apple.

Android is following lots of people: Apple on the sizzle side, LiMo/OpenMoko on the free side.

Depending on your belief in the latter two platforms, Android *might* be the longer-term leader in free, if it can use the energy from the sizzle to be a "playa" bigger than LiMo or OpenMoko. It's even conceivable they could wind up the leader in sizzle too -- just because *we* don't see progress doesn't mean progress isn't happening.

More fragmented market?

That barn door's been open for years. If you're looking for a monoculture, try the desktop PC marketplace on for size.

The carriers get a free operating system built on the hard work of the open-source community.

If you mean Linux, Android isn't the first or only Linux-based mobile phone OS, and it probably won't be the last.

We already have CDC and CLDC platforms if we want to do Java, with a market that already exists.

Considering that Microsoft doesn't like CDC/CLDC, and Apple doesn't like CDC/CLDC, and Android's given no indication of liking CDC/CLDC, and I don't see any CDC/CLDC activity with LiMo or OpenMoko, I'm not too bullish on CDC/CLDC. But, hey, I've definitely been wrong before.

---------------------

Android is making a series of related mis-steps here, from the private SDK releases to the lack of communication. Somebody, somewhere, needs to be fired, or worse, needs to let me rip them a new one. If Android fizzles, which is entirely possible, this whole mess will be one of the bullet points as to why.

And, if Android is able to carve out a significant chunk of the market, few will remember this fiasco in four years' time, other than a general sense of unease whenever symptoms like we're seeing now happen to pop up.

In this respect, Android is going through some of the same stumbles that Netscape did when they "released" Mozilla (big code dump, diddly-squat for support), or when Sun released OpenOffice.org (big code dump, license soup, mixed messages from management), or IBM did when it released Eclipse (big code dump, general sense of "uh, now what?"). Those projects went on to be successes, by most measures.

Of course, the same stumbles befell Real Networks with the release of Helix (big code dump, godawful license I have the shame of being involved with), SAP with the release of SAP DB (big code dump, little community building), and so on. There is no way to determine, here and now, how this will play out for Android.

The only thing I know for certain is that rehashing the same complaints again and again and again won't exactly help Android's cause any. Given the press coverage to date, I feel fairly certain that the "we're <bleep>ing unhappy" message has made it up the Mountain (View). Maybe they'll respond now, maybe they'll stay the course until the ADC wraps in three weeks, or until the product ships in a few months.

Zero days, three weeks, three months -- none of it really makes much difference. Any, perhaps all, open source communities are marathons, not sprints. As for me, I'm just staying limber.