83 messages in org.w3.www-tagRE: FW: draft findings on Unsafe Meth...
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Dan ConnollyApr 15, 2002 8:50 am 
Larry MasinterApr 15, 2002 1:44 pm 
David OrchardApr 15, 2002 3:01 pm 
David OrchardApr 15, 2002 3:19 pm 
Mark BakerApr 15, 2002 8:00 pm 
Keith MooreApr 15, 2002 8:37 pm 
Scott CantorApr 15, 2002 9:28 pm 
Edwin KhodabakchianApr 15, 2002 9:34 pm 
David OrchardApr 15, 2002 10:18 pm 
Paul PrescodApr 15, 2002 11:17 pm 
Tim BrayApr 15, 2002 11:32 pm 
Mark NottinghamApr 16, 2002 1:01 am 
Tim BrayApr 16, 2002 1:02 am 
Mark NottinghamApr 16, 2002 1:09 am 
Paul PrescodApr 16, 2002 2:11 am 
Paul PrescodApr 16, 2002 3:02 am 
Mark BakerApr 16, 2002 4:54 am 
Williams, StuartApr 16, 2002 8:22 am 
Keith MooreApr 16, 2002 8:32 am 
jon...@research.att.comApr 16, 2002 8:44 am 
Scott CantorApr 16, 2002 8:55 am 
Paul PrescodApr 16, 2002 9:40 am 
Mark NottinghamApr 16, 2002 9:42 am 
Hutchison, NigelApr 16, 2002 9:43 am 
Henrik Frystyk NielsenApr 16, 2002 10:48 am 
Bullard, Claude L (Len)Apr 16, 2002 1:46 pm 
Larry MasinterApr 16, 2002 6:39 pm 
Roy T. FieldingApr 16, 2002 7:54 pm 
Larry MasinterApr 16, 2002 10:10 pm 
Graham KlyneApr 17, 2002 1:54 am 
Paul PrescodApr 18, 2002 12:33 am 
Graham KlyneApr 18, 2002 9:11 am 
Alex RousskovApr 18, 2002 9:30 am 
Paul PrescodApr 18, 2002 9:45 am 
Graham KlyneApr 18, 2002 11:58 am 
Roy T. FieldingApr 18, 2002 3:11 pm 
Don BoxApr 18, 2002 6:28 pm 
Mark BakerApr 18, 2002 8:50 pm 
Keith MooreApr 18, 2002 8:54 pm 
Paul PrescodApr 18, 2002 10:00 pm 
Graham KlyneApr 19, 2002 12:53 am 
Bill de hÓraApr 19, 2002 4:18 am 
Roy T. FieldingApr 19, 2002 1:20 pm 
Anne Thomas ManesApr 22, 2002 3:23 pm 
Paul PrescodApr 22, 2002 4:01 pm 
Anne Thomas ManesApr 22, 2002 8:17 pm 
Paul PrescodApr 22, 2002 10:21 pm 
Anne Thomas ManesApr 23, 2002 5:36 am 
Paul PrescodApr 23, 2002 12:03 pm 
Paul PrescodApr 23, 2002 2:09 pm 
Roy T. FieldingApr 23, 2002 2:14 pm 
Bullard, Claude L (Len)Apr 23, 2002 2:50 pm 
Joshua AllenApr 23, 2002 2:53 pm 
David OrchardApr 23, 2002 4:14 pm 
Keith MooreApr 23, 2002 5:05 pm 
Roy T. FieldingApr 23, 2002 5:14 pm 
Simon St.LaurentApr 23, 2002 5:18 pm 
Larry MasinterApr 23, 2002 6:31 pm 
Mark BakerApr 23, 2002 6:36 pm 
Paul PrescodApr 23, 2002 8:03 pm 
Tim BrayApr 23, 2002 8:30 pm 
Dan ConnollyApr 23, 2002 9:05 pm 
Joshua AllenApr 23, 2002 9:10 pm 
Anne Thomas ManesApr 23, 2002 9:28 pm 
Mark NottinghamApr 23, 2002 9:42 pm 
Jeff BoneApr 23, 2002 9:42 pm 
Joshua AllenApr 23, 2002 10:02 pm 
Paul PrescodApr 23, 2002 10:05 pm 
Joshua AllenApr 23, 2002 10:27 pm 
Joshua AllenApr 23, 2002 10:38 pm 
Mark NottinghamApr 23, 2002 10:57 pm 
Mark NottinghamApr 23, 2002 11:16 pm 
Joshua AllenApr 23, 2002 11:20 pm 
Dan ConnollyApr 23, 2002 11:23 pm 
Tim BrayApr 23, 2002 11:56 pm 
Bullard, Claude L (Len)Apr 24, 2002 7:23 am 
Larry MasinterApr 24, 2002 8:47 am 
Keith MooreApr 24, 2002 10:46 am 
Bullard, Claude L (Len)Apr 24, 2002 10:56 am 
Aaron SwartzApr 24, 2002 11:27 am 
Mike DierkenApr 24, 2002 12:06 pm 
David OrchardApr 25, 2002 10:54 am 
Roy T. FieldingMay 5, 2002 3:38 am 
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Subject:RE: FW: draft findings on Unsafe Methods (whenToUseGet-7) Actions...
From:Bullard, Claude L (Len) (clbu@ingr.com)
Date:Apr 24, 2002 7:23:25 am
List:org.w3.www-tag

I agree with those statements. Education is what I came to the REST debate seeking given Paul Prescod's excellent posts and articles on the subject. What is possible, however, is that the strength of the debate may overcome the purpose, education, resulting in a weakened positition for all. A system that does not correspond to an architecture operates outside that architectural scope and that may be all that needs to be said. Beyond that, a concern will arise relative to the overlapping parts of these systems, that is, XML, URIs, HTTP, about new features that make it more difficult for either system to interoperate. Those are future decisions but will be problematic for the W3C and the TAG unless consensus is reached.

Acrimony is human; yet it has a way of breaking down the negotiation process, and over time, making parties irrelevant to a process. SOAP is out there and it is working. Education consists of making it explicit where it does not correspond to the architecture and therefore, is not warrantied by it. When one faces a lawsuit for liquidated damages, such de jure documentation is useful for all parties.

len

-----Original Message----- From: Keith Moore [mailto:moo@cs.utk.edu] Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 7:06 PM To: Bullard, Claude L (Len) Cc: 'Roy T. Fielding'; www-@w3.org Subject: Re: FW: draft findings on Unsafe Methods (whenToUseGet-7)

If Internet systems need to bifurcate, let them.

it's not as if anyone here can prevent such bifurcation.

on the other hand, if too few people understand why SOAP in its current form is a bad idea, or that its use should be subject to certain constraints, then it seems at least potentially useful to educate them.

folks are going to make their own choices, and often those choices will be harmful to the net as a whole. this fact shouldn't dissuade knowledgable individuals and organizations from trying to influence those choices for the greater good.