atom feed19 messages in com.googlegroups.google-web-toolkitRe: Google does not use its own GWT f...
FromSent OnAttachments
David BalmeJul 30, 2008 9:12 am 
Ian BamburyJul 30, 2008 3:53 pm 
Ian BamburyJul 30, 2008 3:58 pm 
TimJul 30, 2008 6:21 pm 
David BalmeJul 30, 2008 7:30 pm 
PingJul 31, 2008 4:49 am 
rustyJul 31, 2008 5:06 pm 
Magno MachadoAug 1, 2008 10:43 am 
waldenAug 1, 2008 12:24 pm 
Magno MachadoAug 1, 2008 12:35 pm 
Ian BamburyAug 1, 2008 12:36 pm 
Magno MachadoAug 1, 2008 12:48 pm 
Magno MachadoAug 1, 2008 12:51 pm 
Srini MarreddyAug 1, 2008 1:10 pm 
Ian BamburyAug 1, 2008 1:11 pm 
MaximAug 1, 2008 2:30 pm 
David BalmeAug 2, 2008 1:13 pm 
Arthur KalmensonAug 4, 2008 8:02 pm 
bru...@google.comAug 13, 2008 3:04 pm 
Subject:Re: Google does not use its own GWT framework
From:Magno Machado (magn@gmail.com)
Date:Aug 1, 2008 12:51:59 pm
List:com.googlegroups.google-web-toolkit

"If you invented a way of riveting wood, would you replace all the nails and screws and glue in your house?" Considering I am the inventor and if I trust it, of course I would! I have to show people how good my invention is.

2008/8/1 Magno Machado <magn@gmail.com>

To suggest that Google should rewite all their existing applications in

GWT for no other reason than for third-party programmers to point >them out to their non-technical, fourth-party bosses and say 'Look!' is just ridiculous. I don't think so. IMO, there are good reasons to rewrite at least one important application in GWT, like Maps or GMail. Anybody will feel more security on a tool if you can see an big succefull use case of it. And what's the consequence of it? More people using your tool. I think it's what Google want, don't you? Improve your app testability, maintainability and speed are some of the GWT's promisses. So, if it's true, then rewriting a big application like GMail is worth the work. In your way of thinking, why would one rewrite an big and stable application written for MS-DOS for MS-Windows (consider Windows was released after the DOS application)? In fact, I'm working on a case like this today. I'm rewriting an application originally written with Borland Visual dBase, but the application is working very well, so why am I doing this? Because nowadays there are better tools and it's time to evolve.

2008/8/1 Ian Bambury <ianb@gmail.com>

If the author of a tool doesn't use it where appropriate *after* it has

been developed, then you have a point.

To suggest that Google should rewite all their existing applications in GWT for no other reason than for third-party programmers to point them out to their non-technical, fourth-party bosses and say 'Look!' is just ridiculous.

If you invented a way of riveting wood, would you replace all the nails and screws and glue in your house?

Ian

2008/8/1 Magno Machado <magn@gmail.com>

An exemple of a Google app built with GWT: https://www.google.com/health/p/ I saw it today on GWT blog.

In fact, I agree that if the author of a tool doesn't use it, it's a sign that something is wrong.

2008/7/31 rusty <rust@gmail.com>

#1, I just happen to work in the exact kind of 'house' that you talk about, with Java devs and Designers where the Java devs are fairly average at design at the Designers know nothing about GWT and Java. Our process is that we get them to design the look of the site, and any critical pages in HTML. They know HTML and are comfortable with it. We then take their CSS and look and convert it to GWT. The overhead is fairly minor, because you can assign all the same styles that the designers used in HTML in GWT. The main thing to tell your designers is to avoid things like this: div table td oddCell eg: please don't assume the structure of things on the page like divs and tables, but rather give each element a top level style: eg .oddCell Once we had that sorted we have no problems at all day to do. Granted it is not as efficient as taking HTML code and turning it into a JSP, but you do get the AJAX benefits of GWT for free, so the two balance each other out.

#2 It's true that GWT doesn't do databinding. Our team has found that you have to pick the best tool for the best job. For all of our forms and tedious data entry stuff we use Stripes. It's superior to struts in every way (though I don't want to start a framework war here) and it's great at databinding and forms. Then when we want popup dialogs and AJAX fanciness we throw in GWT components, sometimes as standalone widgets, sometimes integrating and passing data back to the page via javascript.

#3 I think the jury is still out on this one. GWT has only been around for a few years, and all the tools that you mention have been around a lot longer. If I had to guess I'd say in a company as big as google there would be a lot of javascript guns who don't like the idea of GWT, and there would be some JAVA devs who love it. I wouldn't be surprised if you see a mixed approach going forward, where you get just as new apps out of Google in Javascript as you do in GWT. I don't see a credibility problem here per se, GWT is a great tool, but then Javascript with things like jquery can be pretty damn powerful as well. I don't see why they have to be mutually exclusive. In our projects we often meld the two together quite successfully.

On Jul 31, 8:49 pm, Ping <migu@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm also guessing that some Google devs prefer javascript over GWT, since a) they are more familiarized with it and b) they can do neat tricks that are not possible within Java.

But hey, I guess that if someone were to develop some gmail-like app they would surely use GWT over any other .js framework. Java has a huge ecosystem on lots of areas like testing, IDE, best practices, design patterns, etc.

On Jul 31, 3:30 am, David Balme <davi@gmail.com> wrote:

Ha ha.. Yes I mis-typed the year. I meant Nov 2007. :-)

On Jul 30, 6:58 pm, "Ian Bambury" <ianb@gmail.com> wrote:

2008/7/30 Ian Bambury ianb@gmail.com

A quick search of the web would tell you that Google bought the WP element (in the form of Writely from Upstartle) in March 2006 two months before GWT v1.0 came out.

Mind you, if you have been using GWT since November this year, you have a temporal advantage over many of us :-)

Stuff the environment - Print this email

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