62 messages in org.codehaus.groovy.devRe: [groovy-dev] Groovy performance: ...
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Alex TkachmanFeb 19, 2008 2:09 am 
Steven DevijverFeb 19, 2008 2:37 am 
Alexandru Popescu ☀Feb 19, 2008 2:57 am 
Alex TkachmanFeb 19, 2008 3:03 am 
Patric BechtelFeb 19, 2008 3:12 am 
Guillaume LaforgeFeb 19, 2008 3:25 am 
Guillaume LaforgeFeb 19, 2008 3:26 am 
Patric BechtelFeb 19, 2008 5:05 am 
Gavin GroverFeb 19, 2008 5:51 am 
Steven DevijverFeb 19, 2008 5:52 am 
Guillaume LaforgeFeb 19, 2008 5:54 am 
Tom NicholsFeb 19, 2008 6:26 am 
Alex TkachmanFeb 19, 2008 6:28 am 
Guillaume LaforgeFeb 19, 2008 6:35 am 
Tom NicholsFeb 19, 2008 7:03 am 
Guillaume LaforgeFeb 19, 2008 7:38 am 
Chanwit KaewkasiFeb 19, 2008 7:52 am 
Charles Oliver NutterFeb 19, 2008 8:49 am 
Steven DevijverFeb 19, 2008 10:03 am 
Charles Oliver NutterFeb 19, 2008 11:38 am 
Steven DevijverFeb 19, 2008 12:11 pm 
Alex TkachmanFeb 19, 2008 12:39 pm 
Alex TkachmanFeb 19, 2008 12:48 pm 
tugwilsonFeb 19, 2008 1:36 pm 
Alex TkachmanFeb 19, 2008 8:51 pm 
Guillaume LaforgeFeb 20, 2008 2:10 am 
Jochen TheodorouFeb 20, 2008 9:46 am 
Martin C. MartinFeb 20, 2008 5:25 pm 
Guillaume LaforgeFeb 21, 2008 1:35 am 
Tom NicholsFeb 21, 2008 4:15 am 
Martin C. MartinFeb 21, 2008 5:44 am 
Tom NicholsFeb 21, 2008 6:22 am 
Smith, Jason, CTR, OASD(HA)/TMAFeb 21, 2008 6:34 am 
Martin C. MartinFeb 21, 2008 6:43 am 
Guillaume LaforgeFeb 21, 2008 6:48 am 
Guillaume LaforgeFeb 21, 2008 7:04 am 
Smith, Jason, CTR, OASD(HA)/TMAFeb 21, 2008 7:18 am 
Charles Oliver NutterFeb 21, 2008 7:38 am 
Guillaume LaforgeFeb 21, 2008 7:42 am 
Martin C. MartinFeb 21, 2008 8:36 am 
Martin C. MartinFeb 21, 2008 8:48 am 
Pascal DeMillyFeb 21, 2008 5:35 pm 
Gavin GroverFeb 21, 2008 6:21 pm 
Jochen TheodorouFeb 22, 2008 4:31 am 
Tom NicholsFeb 22, 2008 4:49 am 
Charles Oliver NutterFeb 22, 2008 11:43 pm 
Guillaume LaforgeFeb 23, 2008 12:28 am 
Martin C. MartinFeb 23, 2008 3:51 am 
Jochen TheodorouFeb 23, 2008 2:49 pm 
Jochen TheodorouFeb 23, 2008 2:53 pm 
Charles Oliver NutterFeb 24, 2008 2:01 am 
Martin C. MartinFeb 24, 2008 3:56 am 
Martin C. MartinFeb 24, 2008 4:11 am 
Charles Oliver NutterFeb 24, 2008 5:12 am 
Jochen TheodorouFeb 24, 2008 3:17 pm 
Jochen TheodorouFeb 24, 2008 3:31 pm 
Alexandru Popescu ☀Feb 24, 2008 3:36 pm 
Martin C. MartinFeb 26, 2008 2:20 pm 
Martin C. MartinFeb 26, 2008 3:15 pm 
Jochen TheodorouFeb 27, 2008 2:38 am 
Jochen TheodorouFeb 27, 2008 3:03 am 
Martin C. MartinMar 2, 2008 5:21 pm 
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Subject:Re: [groovy-dev] Groovy performance: what to doActions...
From:Martin C. Martin (mar@martincmartin.com)
Date:Feb 26, 2008 3:15:02 pm
List:org.codehaus.groovy.dev

Jochen Theodorou wrote:

Martin C. Martin schrieb: [...]

You can think of the current method resolution like this:

(1) send the types to the metaclass and have it figure out what method to invoke.

With the first proposal, this becomes:

(2) if (types & metaclass are as expected) { call associated method } else { send the types to the metaclass and have it figure out what method to invoke. }

The question is: if the programmer says they expect certain types & metaclass, but at runtime we find something different, is that an error?

if you want to keep the current way, then no. Not unless you add additional syntax for extended checks.

Sorry, I'm not being very clear. When I said "error" I was talking about the programmer's intentions, I should have said "mistake" instead. In other words, I'm saying there are times when you want the extended checks (and other times you don't.) In those cases, it would be more helpful for the runtime to signal an error than to continue on with unintended (but valid according to the specs) semantics.

[...]

(4) call associated method

Of course, you'd only want to turn off the type checks after you've thoroughly debugged, profiled, and found them to be a bottleneck. (I don't understand why Java even has a switch to turn off all assertions globally; turning off the ones that aren't a bottleneck can only lead to confusing messages or even corrupt data. And it really boggles my mind that they're off by default. Oh well.)

Option (2) is essentially what call site caching does, where "expected" is what was seen last time. But it doesn't allow (3) or (4). Whether that's a problem or an advantage depends on your point of view. ;)

3 is not desired for us atm, and 4... essentially we need 3 to ensure we did chose the right method. If there are cases where we can simplify the code from 3 to 4, then it is good... for example I could imagine that we do not check the MetaClass each time we invoke a method, but instead do it block wise to reduce the costs... not sure yet

It sounds like you don't want to give the programmer the ability to override the default behavior. You don't want the programmer to be able to say "just find the method based on these types. Even if you can't prove it at compile time, trust me, these really are the types." You always want to check the declared types, in case the programmer makes a mistake. Essentially, when it comes to typing for efficiency, you never want to disable what amount to assertions. Am I understanding correctly?

I can see why you'd want to do that in places where performance isn't critical, as with any assertion. Perhaps it is a differing philosophy, but it makes sense to me to be able to turn those off in the small amount of code that's a performance bottleneck.

Or am I misunderstanding?

Best, Martin

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