atom feed94 messages in org.blender.bf-committersRe: [Bf-committers] "Security" gets i...
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Daniel Salazar - 3Developer.comApr 27, 2010 5:59 pm 
Matt EbbApr 27, 2010 6:17 pm 
Benjamin TolputtApr 27, 2010 7:09 pm 
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Matt EbbApr 27, 2010 7:32 pm 
Benjamin TolputtApr 27, 2010 7:57 pm 
Campbell BartonApr 28, 2010 1:03 am 
Daniel Salazar - 3Developer.comApr 28, 2010 1:14 am 
Remo PiniApr 28, 2010 1:34 am 
Benjamin TolputtApr 28, 2010 2:36 am 
horace grantApr 28, 2010 4:28 am 
Benjamin TolputtApr 28, 2010 7:05 am 
horace grantApr 28, 2010 7:56 am 
Remo PiniApr 28, 2010 8:32 am 
Nery ChucuyApr 28, 2010 8:41 am 
Raul Fernandez HernandezApr 28, 2010 8:58 am 
male...@licuadorastudio.comApr 28, 2010 9:30 am 
Bassam KurdaliApr 28, 2010 9:55 am 
Raul Fernandez HernandezApr 28, 2010 10:58 am 
Makslane RodriguesApr 28, 2010 1:52 pm 
horace grantApr 28, 2010 2:28 pm 
Matt EbbApr 28, 2010 2:34 pm 
Charles WardlawApr 28, 2010 2:58 pm 
Makslane RodriguesApr 28, 2010 3:15 pm 
Tom MApr 28, 2010 3:16 pm 
Ruslan MerkulovApr 28, 2010 4:33 pm 
Charles WardlawApr 28, 2010 5:09 pm 
joeApr 28, 2010 5:21 pm 
Benjamin TolputtApr 28, 2010 5:31 pm 
Ruslan MerkulovApr 28, 2010 5:40 pm 
Benjamin TolputtApr 28, 2010 6:44 pm 
Martin PoirierApr 28, 2010 8:01 pm 
amrp...@gmail.comApr 28, 2010 8:27 pm 
Charles WardlawApr 28, 2010 8:44 pm 
Benjamin TolputtApr 28, 2010 8:56 pm 
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§ĥřïñïďĥï ŖäöApr 28, 2010 9:03 pm 
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Benjamin TolputtApr 28, 2010 11:22 pm 
Ruslan MerkulovApr 29, 2010 12:10 am 
Tony MullenApr 29, 2010 3:08 am 
Kevin RoyApr 29, 2010 3:30 am 
Charles WardlawApr 29, 2010 3:39 am 
horace grantApr 29, 2010 5:03 am 
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Martin PoirierApr 29, 2010 5:57 am 
Benjamin TolputtApr 29, 2010 5:58 am 
(Ry)akiotakis (An)tonisApr 29, 2010 6:13 am 
Charles WardlawApr 29, 2010 6:16 am 
Raul Fernandez HernandezApr 29, 2010 6:35 am 
Charles WardlawApr 29, 2010 6:41 am 
Benjamin TolputtApr 29, 2010 6:46 am 
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Raul Fernandez HernandezApr 29, 2010 8:10 am 
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Michael JuddApr 29, 2010 10:55 am 
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Benjamin TolputtApr 29, 2010 4:41 pm 
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Martin PoirierApr 29, 2010 5:08 pm 
Benjamin TolputtApr 29, 2010 5:09 pm 
horace grantApr 29, 2010 5:26 pm 
Ken HughesApr 29, 2010 5:47 pm 
Ken HughesApr 29, 2010 5:52 pm 
Ken HughesApr 29, 2010 5:54 pm 
Benjamin TolputtApr 29, 2010 5:55 pm 
Benjamin TolputtApr 29, 2010 5:57 pm 
Benjamin TolputtApr 29, 2010 6:13 pm 
Roger WickesApr 29, 2010 6:13 pm 
Benjamin TolputtApr 29, 2010 6:25 pm 
Michael JuddApr 29, 2010 6:39 pm 
Benjamin TolputtApr 29, 2010 6:58 pm 
Martin PoirierApr 29, 2010 7:22 pm 
Benjamin TolputtApr 29, 2010 9:24 pm 
Campbell BartonApr 29, 2010 9:46 pm 
Michael JuddApr 29, 2010 9:48 pm 
Benjamin TolputtApr 29, 2010 11:28 pm 
Luke FriskenApr 30, 2010 2:01 am 
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Benjamin TolputtApr 30, 2010 5:39 pm 
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Jason WilkinsApr 30, 2010 7:52 pm 
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jspliferMay 1, 2010 1:45 am 
horace grantMay 1, 2010 8:38 am 
Subject:Re: [Bf-committers] "Security" gets in the way
From:horace grant (hora@gmail.com)
Date:Apr 28, 2010 4:28:17 am
List:org.blender.bf-committers

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Remo Pini <remo@avexys.com> wrote:

Hm...

To me - as a person coming from the IT security field - there seems to be an
interesting conundrum:

At some point in the past, someone made the choice of using Python as the
pervasive scripting language in Blender. We've all heard through various emails
on how it is basically NOT possible to lock down Python to be secure (as well as
being outside of the scope of actual language development according to the
Python gurus, so it will never happen). At the same time, tons of stuff depends
on Python being "fully" enabled, so shutting it off is not really an option as
well.

From my experience, if an option needs to be turned on/off most of the time for
things to work, it will be left at the most convenient setting always, so there
really is no value in having the option in the first place.

From what I have read so far, the only "real" solution would be to move to a
truly "sandboxable"/embeddable scripting language such as LUA, which is not
going to happen or to keep running with the existing model of trusting everybody
not to screw around with Python scripts.

All other solution that I have seen place an unmanageable burden on the user and
usually require a central controlling entity (i.e. signed vs. unsigned code
having access to restricted functions such as I/O).

We should keep this in perspective though. Most other 3D packages currently
allow "dangerous" scripting too, so we don't really behave any worse by allowing
scripts in the current setting than any other solution. Which is not to say that
we shouldn't try to be "better" than the other packages on the long run...

Ultimately, I would suggest to abandon Python for a truly embedded scripting
solution (i.e. LUA), but that would be a massive change with a huge impact...
maybe worth a thought for Blender 3.0.

no need for lua. python is the much nicer language. :p there is pypy which supports sandboxing and which also gets cpython api compatible at the moment.

http://morepypy.blogspot.com/2010/04/using-cpython-extension-modules-with.html

in 2 years or so (once pypy is more mature and python 3 compatible) it should be no big problem to replace cpython with pypy. as another benefit pypy will be much faster than cpython due to its jit compiler.

Cheers

So the scenario here as I see it is: people who don't know about this leave the loading of scripts off (and are safe from the evil blender hackers out there), next people start having the problems related to this setting and due to it being unusable in production they find out how to disable it everywhere and then they are right where everything started, except from time to time someone forgets to set the flag on and gets a nice headache while wondering why this feature exists in the first place

added -Y option to enable script execution, this means render nodes don't need to have .B25.blend's

eg.  ./blender.bin -b -Y myblend.blend -a

 I have a history of lost work and time with this so called security features where blender decides to turn off drivers and ignore script links and so on and you don't notice it until you have worked on a faulty rig/scene for a long time or you have rendered some heavy frames and have to do it all over again. In 2.5 since the inclusion of the "trusted source" option this has done nothing but cause problems everywhere from teaching to every day jobs; students load rigs that don't work and naturally they do not know the difference, lost time with clients that in order to review a rig had to turn on the load py scripts option and they didn't knew about it so we all loose time, etc.

 Today I sent a render to the farm and when it finished the character was all wrong.. so I spent a long time changing the .B25.blend files on all 17 machines (boot with X session, change preference, reboot again). After all this I launch the render again and when it finished the problem is still there. It so happens that rendering from command line ignores the .B25.blend file... so not good. I had to export animation as MDD point cache and import back as RVKs in order to workaround the missing drivers

http://www.pasteall.org/12745

 So my point of view here is: stop playing around with my scene *please*, it's hard enough to get things working for blender to decide to break some random part. And this is the point of view of someone with 8 years of using blender almost every day, imagine someone new trying to figure out this problems?