atom feed192 messages in org.freebsd.freebsd-archRe: FreeBSD problems and preliminary ...
FromSent OnAttachments
Vadim GoncharovAug 17, 2011 4:09 pm 
Baptiste DaroussinAug 18, 2011 12:49 am 
Robert WatsonAug 18, 2011 8:41 am 
Maxim IgnatenkoAug 18, 2011 11:09 am 
Lev SerebryakovAug 18, 2011 12:49 pm 
Lev SerebryakovAug 18, 2011 2:23 pm 
Vadim GoncharovAug 18, 2011 2:45 pm 
Hans Petter SelaskyAug 18, 2011 2:45 pm 
Vadim GoncharovAug 18, 2011 2:59 pm 
Vadim GoncharovAug 18, 2011 3:17 pm 
Julian ElischerAug 18, 2011 7:53 pm 
Michael V. BuzuverovAug 18, 2011 8:48 pm 
Lars EngelsAug 18, 2011 10:55 pm 
Lars EngelsAug 19, 2011 12:37 am 
Robert WatsonAug 19, 2011 1:23 am 
Lev SerebryakovAug 19, 2011 1:36 am 
Robert WatsonAug 19, 2011 1:41 am 
Lev SerebryakovAug 19, 2011 1:49 am 
Robert WatsonAug 19, 2011 1:55 am 
Slawa OlhovchenkovAug 19, 2011 2:05 am 
Lev SerebryakovAug 19, 2011 2:05 am 
Adrian ChaddAug 19, 2011 2:05 am 
Slawa OlhovchenkovAug 19, 2011 2:22 am 
Lev SerebryakovAug 19, 2011 2:25 am 
Lev SerebryakovAug 19, 2011 2:27 am 
Robert N. M. WatsonAug 19, 2011 2:36 am 
Slawa OlhovchenkovAug 19, 2011 2:36 am 
Robert N. M. WatsonAug 19, 2011 2:37 am 
Slawa OlhovchenkovAug 19, 2011 2:50 am 
Bob BishopAug 19, 2011 2:51 am 
Pieter de GoejeAug 19, 2011 5:01 am 
Kris MooreAug 19, 2011 5:20 am 
Lev SerebryakovAug 19, 2011 6:52 am 
Adrian ChaddAug 19, 2011 8:26 am 
Gary PalmerAug 19, 2011 10:22 am 
Robert WatsonAug 19, 2011 11:49 am 
Nathan WhitehornAug 19, 2011 1:17 pm 
Pedro F. GiffuniAug 19, 2011 1:29 pm 
Gary PalmerAug 19, 2011 1:30 pm 
Kostik BelousovAug 19, 2011 2:26 pm 
Rick MacklemAug 19, 2011 3:38 pm 
Robert WatsonAug 19, 2011 3:57 pm 
Pedro F. GiffuniAug 19, 2011 5:57 pm 
Lev SerebryakovAug 19, 2011 11:14 pm 
Robert WatsonAug 20, 2011 4:37 am 
Luigi RizzoAug 20, 2011 6:42 am 
Poul-Henning KampAug 20, 2011 7:10 am 
Robert N. M. WatsonAug 20, 2011 7:21 am 
Lev SerebryakovAug 20, 2011 2:09 pm 
Luigi RizzoAug 20, 2011 2:36 pm 
Peter JeremyAug 21, 2011 4:04 am 
Slawa OlhovchenkovAug 21, 2011 6:51 am 
Marcin WisnickiAug 22, 2011 10:04 am 
Marcin WisnickiAug 22, 2011 11:33 am 
selvenAug 22, 2011 11:06 pm 
Adrian ChaddAug 22, 2011 11:49 pm 
Garrett CooperAug 22, 2011 11:54 pm 
Diane BruceAug 23, 2011 7:01 pm 
Vadim GoncharovAug 24, 2011 3:08 pm 
Vadim GoncharovAug 24, 2011 3:15 pm 
Vadim GoncharovAug 24, 2011 3:20 pm 
Vadim GoncharovAug 24, 2011 3:29 pm 
Milo HysonAug 24, 2011 7:42 pm 
gnuy...@gmail.comAug 24, 2011 8:33 pm 
Alex GoncharovAug 24, 2011 8:47 pm 
Milo HysonAug 24, 2011 10:04 pm 
Adrian ChaddAug 24, 2011 10:24 pm 
Vadim GoncharovAug 25, 2011 8:20 am 
Vadim GoncharovAug 25, 2011 8:33 am 
Vadim GoncharovAug 25, 2011 8:41 am 
Garrett CooperAug 25, 2011 11:15 am 
Xin LIAug 25, 2011 11:20 am 
Diane BruceAug 25, 2011 1:12 pm 
Vadim GoncharovAug 25, 2011 1:29 pm 
Vadim GoncharovAug 25, 2011 1:52 pm 
md...@FreeBSD.orgAug 25, 2011 1:58 pm 
Vadim GoncharovAug 25, 2011 3:08 pm 
Brandon GoochAug 25, 2011 5:12 pm 
Robert WatsonAug 26, 2011 1:58 am 
Robert WatsonAug 26, 2011 2:05 am 
Adrian ChaddAug 26, 2011 2:16 am 
Slawa OlhovchenkovAug 26, 2011 2:37 am 
110 later messages
Subject:Re: FreeBSD problems and preliminary ways to solve
From:Kris Moore (kr@pcbsd.org)
Date:Aug 19, 2011 5:20:51 am
List:org.freebsd.freebsd-arch

Lars Engels <lm@FreeBSD.org> wrote:

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:54:17 -0700, Julian Elischer wrote:

On 8/18/11 2:59 PM, Vadim Goncharov wrote:

Hi Lev Serebryakov!

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 23:50:11 +0400; Lev Serebryakov wrote about 'Re:

FreeBSD problems and preliminary ways to solve':

8) There is no -STABLE supported branches in ports.

I want to be more precise here: not -STABLE, but all -RELEASE branches, where "upstream" version of ports/packages never changes, and only security bugfixes are backported.

To be even more precise, they need a guarantee that automatic updates will not break anything so that it could be put to cron like "apt-cron". This goal could be satisfied by another means, I hope: FreeBSD developers unlikely to have enough time/efforts to keep it for *all* -RELEASE branches, but for only chosen ones (e.g. extended security support) - may be.

while all the talk about new ports frameworks etc is nice, it is still annoying that the ports and FreeBSD crews don't take the *new* PBI infrastructure that is being pused out with PCBSD-9 as an important move. The new PBI infrastructure should be taken into the ports system as an important factor. For those who do not know it, it give a facility somewhat like the what that APPLE applications work. At the potential (not always) for having redundant libraries, every PBI package comes with EVERYTHING IT NEEDS. there are no 'dependnet packages' as such. On install a survey is made so that if anything is found to be truly duplicated (different versions of the same library are NOT considered a duplicate) then they share, but if not then each package installs and ONLY USES the stuff that came with it.

The ramifications of this (in this era of large disks) are immense. If you unstall all your main applications using PBI, then if you screw up your ports installed libraries and development environment when you install some new version of the XXX runtime, *your applications keep working*.

A case of "it just works". For the life of me I don't understand WHY

there is this resistance to taking it into the fold. Especially when all the work has already been done. It won't replace pkgng and it it won't replace ports because it actually uses ports to generate the PBI packages. But it should be teh default delivery mechanism for binary basic packages.

As I said.. go run an apple for a while and see what it is supposed to be like.

PBIs are a nice thing but....

The thing that sucked about PBIs at least in PCBSD 8.x is that the PBIs

are too big to download. We may all have big disks but there are many people around who don't have fast internet access. E.g. the Firefox PBI is about 100 MB of size and there's a new version of it every few days. Add Thunderbird, VLC and OpenOffice to that list and your're downloading some GBs per month just to get your security holes closed. What is the situation like in PCBSD 9.x? I heard that it was planned to

offer update deltas which should be much smaller. If that's so, I'm all for PBIs.

FYI, in 9 updates are done via deltas, or more specifically bsdiff, which often
makes the download file a fraction of the size. The update to a 100mb firefox
pbi may only be 5-6 mb, just depends on the size of the changes.