48 messages in org.w3.www-styleRe: Publishing the flexible box model
FromSent OnAttachments
L. David BaronJun 3, 2008 9:48 pm 
Alan GresleyJun 3, 2008 11:56 pm 
L. David BaronJun 4, 2008 12:22 am 
Anne van KesterenJun 4, 2008 1:12 am 
David HyattJun 4, 2008 1:46 pm 
Andrew FedonioukJun 4, 2008 5:50 pm 
L. David BaronJun 4, 2008 6:04 pm 
David HyattJun 4, 2008 6:54 pm 
Andrew FedonioukJun 4, 2008 8:09 pm.h
L. David BaronJun 4, 2008 10:23 pm 
L. David BaronJun 4, 2008 10:48 pm 
Andrew FedonioukJun 4, 2008 11:39 pm 
Andrew FedonioukJun 5, 2008 12:32 am 
Alan GresleyJun 5, 2008 12:34 am 
Robert O'CallahanJun 6, 2008 3:44 am 
fantasaiJun 6, 2008 8:12 am 
Andrew FedonioukJun 6, 2008 9:06 am 
Anne van KesterenJun 6, 2008 9:40 am 
Andrew FedonioukJun 6, 2008 9:54 am 
fantasaiJun 6, 2008 12:41 pm 
Andrew FedonioukJun 6, 2008 1:00 pm 
Robert O'CallahanJun 6, 2008 1:43 pm 
Andrew FedonioukJun 6, 2008 3:48 pm 
Robert O'CallahanJun 7, 2008 2:30 am 
Alan GresleyJun 7, 2008 7:24 am 
Alan GresleyJun 7, 2008 7:48 am 
Brad KemperJun 7, 2008 10:03 am 
Andrew FedonioukJun 7, 2008 1:34 pm 
Andrew FedonioukJun 7, 2008 2:46 pm 
Alan GresleyJun 7, 2008 8:56 pm 
Robert O'CallahanJun 9, 2008 5:48 pm 
Andrew FedonioukJun 9, 2008 7:22 pm 
Robert O'CallahanJun 9, 2008 7:59 pm 
L. David BaronJun 9, 2008 8:29 pm 
Andrew FedonioukJun 9, 2008 9:24 pm 
Andrew FedonioukJun 9, 2008 9:55 pm 
Robert O'CallahanJun 9, 2008 10:04 pm 
Andrew FedonioukJun 10, 2008 12:02 am 
Robert O'CallahanJun 10, 2008 1:46 am 
Alan GresleyJun 10, 2008 2:19 am 
Alan GresleyJun 10, 2008 2:35 am 
Alan GresleyJun 10, 2008 2:50 am 
Andrew FedonioukJun 10, 2008 12:58 pm 
Robert O'CallahanJun 10, 2008 2:34 pm 
Andrew FedonioukJun 10, 2008 4:07 pm 
Andrew FedonioukJun 10, 2008 4:30 pm 
Andrew FedonioukJun 10, 2008 4:39 pm 
Mike WilsonJun 12, 2008 4:46 am 
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Subject:Re: Publishing the flexible box modelActions...
From:Andrew Fedoniouk (ne@terrainformatica.com)
Date:Jun 7, 2008 1:34:48 pm
List:org.w3.www-style

Alan Gresley wrote:

Andrew Fedoniouk wrote:

Robert O'Callahan wrote:

There will also be interesting interactions between flex-units and clearance. <div style="overflow:auto;" class="block-formatting-context"> <div style="height:1*;">Hello</div> <div style="float:left;">Kitty</div> <div style="clear:left;">Kitty</div> </div> Since we don't know the vertical positions until the end, we can't know whether to clear or not. If we treat 1* as auto while we compute clearance, the results are going to be really bad when we apply flex at the end.

As I said floats are not the best friends of flexes. But if flexes and the flow attribute will be implemented you will see a dramatic reduction of floats uses. All cases when floats are used currently for horizontal block layout purposes can be implemented significantly better and more reliable with flexes.

Sorry Andrew but I disagree totally here. The beauty of the using floats is that any block elements following in the source will expand the full width of their containing block in the presence of floated elements after widths and margins are calculated.

Sorry, but where did you find such beauty in the spec?

Yeah, nice shot of Carina Nebulae. That is courtesy of Hubble team, BTW.

Can the flex-box-model to something similar, like show the elements (ie. red border and image) behind the floats?

I am not sure I understand your problem or idea of what you are trying to achieve. At least it is hard for me to imagine where such peculiar constructions can be used in practice.

Here is one practical layout that people are asking for in years: http://www.terrainformatica.com/htmlayout/images/image5.png

With current state of CSS it is simply impossible to reproduce it. (Currently, you can do it with <table> and in quirks mode only)

To say that there would be a reduction of the use of floats by authors is not true since floats can be used in many different ways for very different layouts.

Floats were designed initially as a way to attach images and tables with the text - aside elements or call-outs. E.g. HTML 3.2 had only two elements that have @align evaluated to modern float:left/right: <img> and <table>. Floats was and still are not designed for types of positioning other than to put something aside of text.

Attempts to use floats for block positioning are extremely not scalable and not reliable now and for the future.

Here is David Baron's nice article about the subject http://dbaron.org/log/2005-12. That is, IMO, must read thing if you are seriously in business of teaching people of how to use CSS properly.

You are a programmer and browser impersonator. Are you also a CSS author? Have you ever done CSS layouts? If the answer is no to both these questions then you are not in the position to judge if the flex-box-model could replace the use of floats by authors.

I've implemented CSS parser and CSS rendering engine by myself (CSS 2.1 and parts of CSS3). I suspect that I know CSS a bit better than average CSS author.

http://terrainformatica.com