Re: [Bf-committers] Collada importer/exporter kickout - Ton Roosendaal - org.blender.bf-committers

95 messages in org.blender.bf-committersRe: [Bf-committers] Collada importer/...

From	Sent On	Attachments
Sergey Sharybin	Jan 4, 2012 11:57 am
Thomas Dinges	Jan 4, 2012 12:07 pm
Nathan Letwory	Jan 4, 2012 12:12 pm
Peter Amstutz	Jan 4, 2012 1:34 pm
Knapp	Jan 4, 2012 1:42 pm
Tobias Kummer	Jan 4, 2012 6:45 pm
Campbell Barton	Jan 4, 2012 7:56 pm
Sergey Sharybin	Jan 4, 2012 11:59 pm
Domino Marama	Jan 5, 2012 3:51 am
Brecht Van Lommel	Jan 5, 2012 2:27 pm
Domino Marama	Jan 5, 2012 2:54 pm
Ton Roosendaal	Jan 6, 2012 2:58 am
Gaia Clary	Jan 6, 2012 3:41 am
Sergey Sharybin	Jan 6, 2012 3:48 am
Thomas Dinges	Jan 6, 2012 3:51 am
Campbell Barton	Jan 6, 2012 4:07 am
Knapp	Jan 6, 2012 10:51 am
Morten Mikkelsen	Jan 6, 2012 12:20 pm
Francesco Zoffoli	Jan 6, 2012 4:03 pm
skoti	Jan 6, 2012 5:11 pm
Morten Mikkelsen	Jan 6, 2012 5:34 pm
Przemyslaw Golab	Jan 7, 2012 12:40 am
Ton Roosendaal	Jan 7, 2012 3:30 am
skoti	Jan 7, 2012 5:03 am
Morten Mikkelsen	Jan 7, 2012 6:49 am
Juan Linietsky	Jan 7, 2012 7:06 am
Morten Mikkelsen	Jan 7, 2012 7:38 am
Juan Linietsky	Jan 7, 2012 7:49 am
Juan Linietsky	Jan 7, 2012 7:51 am
Juan Linietsky	Jan 7, 2012 8:22 am
Morten Mikkelsen	Jan 7, 2012 8:29 am
Domino Marama	Jan 7, 2012 9:03 am
Erwin Coumans	Jan 7, 2012 9:07 am
Juan Linietsky	Jan 7, 2012 9:10 am
Erwin Coumans	Jan 7, 2012 9:23 am
Morten Mikkelsen	Jan 7, 2012 9:46 am
skoti	Jan 7, 2012 10:15 am
Gaia Clary	Jan 7, 2012 10:34 am
Knapp	Jan 7, 2012 10:34 am
Erwin Coumans	Jan 7, 2012 11:15 am
Alexandr Kuznetsov	Jan 7, 2012 11:32 am
Juan Linietsky	Jan 7, 2012 12:04 pm
Juan Linietsky	Jan 7, 2012 12:06 pm
Juan Linietsky	Jan 7, 2012 12:08 pm
Erwin Coumans	Jan 7, 2012 12:13 pm
Sergey Kurdakov	Jan 7, 2012 12:31 pm
Sebastian	Jan 7, 2012 1:22 pm
Juan Linietsky	Jan 7, 2012 2:33 pm
Morten Mikkelsen	Jan 7, 2012 3:08 pm
Juan Linietsky	Jan 7, 2012 3:24 pm
Morten Mikkelsen	Jan 7, 2012 3:36 pm
Campbell Barton	Jan 7, 2012 6:44 pm
skoti	Jan 8, 2012 1:57 am
François T.	Jan 8, 2012 3:23 pm
Juan Linietsky	Jan 8, 2012 3:30 pm
angj...@gulftel.com	Jan 8, 2012 4:34 pm
Juan Linietsky	Jan 8, 2012 7:16 pm
Campbell Barton	Jan 8, 2012 8:39 pm
Juan Linietsky	Jan 8, 2012 9:36 pm
Kalle-Samuli Riihikoski	Jan 8, 2012 9:54 pm
Campbell Barton	Jan 8, 2012 9:56 pm
François T.	Jan 9, 2012 12:26 am
Ton Roosendaal	Jan 9, 2012 2:43 am
Sebastian	Jan 9, 2012 3:09 am
Domino Marama	Jan 9, 2012 3:59 am
François T.	Jan 9, 2012 5:30 am
Peter Amstutz	Jan 9, 2012 5:37 am
Domino Marama	Jan 9, 2012 5:50 am
Juan Linietsky	Jan 9, 2012 6:07 am
Sebastian	Jan 9, 2012 7:22 am
Domino Marama	Jan 9, 2012 7:53 am
spatial	Jan 9, 2012 2:52 pm
Sebastian	Jan 9, 2012 3:25 pm
Antony Riakiotakis	Jan 9, 2012 3:33 pm
Campbell Barton	Jan 9, 2012 3:37 pm
Campbell Barton	Jan 9, 2012 4:19 pm
Ton Roosendaal	Jan 10, 2012 2:14 am
johannes amorosa	Jan 10, 2012 3:29 am
spatial	Jan 10, 2012 3:57 am
François T.	Jan 10, 2012 5:57 am
Erwin Coumans	Jan 10, 2012 6:30 am
Gaia Clary	Jan 10, 2012 7:45 am
Juan Linietsky	Jan 10, 2012 1:47 pm
Daniel Salazar - 3Developer.com	Jan 10, 2012 1:52 pm
Juan Linietsky	Jan 10, 2012 2:39 pm
Ton Roosendaal	Jan 11, 2012 2:05 am
Sebastian	Jan 11, 2012 11:59 am
Juan Linietsky	Jan 11, 2012 7:26 pm
Juha Mäki-Kanto	Jan 14, 2012 12:27 pm
Juha Mäki-Kanto	Jan 15, 2012 3:21 am
Juan Linietsky	Jan 15, 2012 6:10 am
Sebastian	Jan 15, 2012 6:23 am
Juha Mäki-Kanto	Jan 15, 2012 11:37 am
Peter Amstutz	Jan 17, 2012 1:43 pm
Stephen Swaney	Jan 17, 2012 6:27 pm

Subject:	Re: [Bf-committers] Collada importer/exporter kickout
From:	Ton Roosendaal (to...@blender.org)
Date:	Jan 11, 2012 2:05:59 am
List:	org.blender.bf-committers

Hi,

You can count on plenty of people jumping on a patch if you publish it. Don't
understimate the power of having many eyes looking. If it requires more
expertise or IO experience, Campbell is around to check on it too.

-Ton-

On 10 Jan, 2012, at 23:39, Juan Linietsky wrote:

Heh I wanted to emphasize that it works, but I seriously do need to work with someone familiar with writing blender and/or blender import plugins in C++ to do it, who can take my code and adapt it to Blender. It should be a short task for someone with that experience.

Cheers

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Daniel Salazar - 3Developer.com < zan...@gmail.com> wrote:

That sounds *very* exciting and *very* appropriate for our needs :) OC ads too much weight to Blender's big ass

Daniel Salazar 3Developer.com

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Juan Linietsky <redu...@gmail.com> wrote:

I didn't realize a collada exporter was so important. If so..

I have a *very* *tested* and *very* *small* collada importer in my middleware stuff (~3k lines of C++ code). It supports pretty much everything (models, skeletons, materials, cameras, lights, morphs, any-axis orientation, animations with matrices or curves, etc).

Given it's very small size and non-dependency on OC, it's very easy to understand and *very easy to mantain*. It pretty much just ignores conformance of input files and just attempts to grab wathever data it needs so *compatibility is extremely high*.

It's not a standalone library, but it's separated enough that *if someone knowledgable of blender internals *wants to give a try to adapting it to blender (of course with me 100% available for answering questions with this), i think in a matter of a few hours we can solve the Blender problem of collada import support. However as I said in previous mails, I really lack the time to get familiar with Blender internals and do this myself.

Cheers

Juan Linietsky

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Erwin Coumans <erwi...@gmail.com

wrote:

Until Blender has good fbx import or an alternative collada import (python?) it would be good to postpone dropping OpenCollada.

From the feedback, some people are using the import feature, and there

no replacement.

Let's hope someone stands up and fixes the issues in trunk, rather then branch. On Jan 10, 2012 2:15 AM, "Ton Roosendaal" <to...@blender.org> wrote:

Hi,

The Collada conformance suite is not working, and working on it won't help anything. I wrote about this here; http://code.blender.org/index.php/2011/10/collada-momentum/

Collada just has no reference stakeholder(s) (like how fbx was native for motionbuilder). Blender would be the worst stakeholder for it even, since we have the awesome .blend :)

Much better stakeholders would be Linden Labs (2nd life), or

CryTek...

Daz? Three names of companies who make plenty of dollars with software licensing. Why don't they put an employee as developer in our team, to ensure Collada exports smoothly for their products?

I even wouldn't mind a (python) addon "Export to DazCollada, CryCollada, 2ndLifeCollada, etc. It's how collada has been designed to work anyway...

-Ton-

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ton Roosendaal Blender Foundation to...@blender.org www.blender.org Blender Institute Entrepotdok 57A 1018AD Amsterdam The Netherlands

On 10 Jan, 2012, at 0:25, Sebastian wrote:

COLLADA has a great conformance test suite at http://www.khronos.org/conformance/implementers/collada/

It's being made available for free and I've already seen Blender results uploaded some time ago.

On 09.01.2012 23:52, spatial wrote:

For the COLLADA community Blender is definitely one of the most important stakeholders to stop supporting COLLADA would make

things

DCC exchange even worse.

I agree. Not to mention all those who co use it alongside LW , all of DAZ products....etc.

I actually tried to avoid a discussion here since a long time, but topic is too important.

First, kicking out collada from blender doesn't help anyone. None

the

"common" interexchange formats is that reliable / support all features. To have at least a second format as a backup strategy, if a certain features arent't supported / have some unreliable results, is a "must have" in every cross application enviroment.

And btw, blenders FBX import is, from my experience, still not as reliable as it should be, to actually replace collada. (sorry,

this

no actual bashing... its already great what has been archived... especially if you consider that it is allways pain in the ass, to support such a complex exchange format)

We are currently discussing further financing of OpenCOLLADA and will spend more time the next months on bugfixing and conformance tests.

Sorry to say this, but this is one of the mayor reasons I have to

post

this:

Conformance tests do only help a little to 0 The big _advantage_ fbx has, is a working reference application

called

maya.

No conformance test can actually be that foolproof to support all features and variations. So by this simple unoffical agreement,"if it doesn't work in maya - it is broken", users and developers have an ideal platform to discuss errors / find workarounds. This greatly

avoids

the

"picking in the dark" situation all developers currently face with collada. Even if a dev doesn't have access to it, in a lot of

cases,

can track down problems reported by users who do provide a simple screenshot.

Could this collada reference application be Blender ? For me this is a very attractive idea, but also, I'm very aware of

the

fact,

that I'm opening a can of worms I'm actually in no way in the right position to touch.

Anyway just my 2 cents on this. chris

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