|Tim Bray||Feb 6, 2002 8:42 pm|
|David Orchard||Feb 6, 2002 10:00 pm|
|Jacek Kopecky||Feb 7, 2002 3:02 am|
|Elliotte Rusty Harold||Feb 7, 2002 4:14 am|
|Elliotte Rusty Harold||Feb 7, 2002 4:17 am|
|Elliotte Rusty Harold||Feb 7, 2002 4:28 am|
|Elliotte Rusty Harold||Feb 7, 2002 4:51 am|
|Tim Bray||Feb 7, 2002 10:12 am|
|Tim Bray||Feb 7, 2002 10:13 am|
|Piotr Kaminski||Feb 8, 2002 4:34 am|
|Tim Berners-Lee||Feb 12, 2002 12:03 pm|
|Paul Prescod||Feb 12, 2002 2:21 pm|
|Norman Walsh||Feb 12, 2002 2:29 pm|
|Dan Connolly||Feb 12, 2002 2:33 pm|
|Simon St.Laurent||Feb 12, 2002 3:05 pm|
|Simon St.Laurent||Feb 12, 2002 3:46 pm|
|Martin Duerst||Feb 12, 2002 4:00 pm|
|Jacek Kopecky||Feb 13, 2002 4:53 am|
|Norman Walsh||Feb 13, 2002 7:00 am|
|Jacek Kopecky||Feb 13, 2002 7:40 am|
|Elliotte Rusty Harold||Feb 13, 2002 8:07 am|
|Norman Walsh||Feb 13, 2002 8:14 am|
|Jacek Kopecky||Feb 13, 2002 10:05 am|
|Paul Prescod||Feb 13, 2002 10:27 am|
|MURATA Makoto||Feb 13, 2002 6:12 pm|
|Rick Jelliffe||Feb 13, 2002 11:38 pm|
|Norman Walsh||Feb 14, 2002 6:07 am|
|Jun Fujisawa||Feb 16, 2002 5:44 am|
|Tim Berners-Lee||Feb 22, 2002 7:56 am|
|Eric van der Vlist||Feb 22, 2002 8:07 am|
|Eric van der Vlist||Feb 23, 2002 1:23 am|
|Piotr Kaminski||Feb 23, 2002 3:18 am|
|Elliotte Rusty Harold||Feb 23, 2002 9:06 am|
|Paul Prescod||Feb 23, 2002 9:31 am|
|Eric van der Vlist||Feb 23, 2002 12:01 pm|
|Piotr Kaminski||Feb 23, 2002 3:47 pm|
|Elliotte Rusty Harold||Feb 23, 2002 4:26 pm|
|Piotr Kaminski||Feb 23, 2002 5:21 pm|
|Elliotte Rusty Harold||Feb 23, 2002 7:36 pm|
|Tim Berners-Lee||Mar 4, 2002 11:40 am|
|Tim Berners-Lee||Mar 4, 2002 1:14 pm|
|Rick Jelliffe||Mar 25, 2002 7:00 am|
|Subject:||Re: PIs considered harmful Was: XML-SW, a thought experiment|
|From:||Norman Walsh (Norm...@Sun.COM)|
|Date:||Feb 13, 2002 8:14:54 am|
/ Jacek Kopecky <jac...@systinet.com> was heard to say: | had the DocBook schema been designed to allow for arbitrary | extensibility in an other namespace, the added element (or | attribute) would be the solution.
No. I gave several reasons why an element from another namespace is not and would not be a reasonable solution to this problem.
An namespaced attribute would have fewer of the problems, but I think that's inappropriate as well (and it *only* works if you have a schema that you can change or a schema that was designed to allow the solution you suggest). A PI works everywhere, for anyone.
| Yes it would not validate against the original schema, but this | is not a raw DocBook document, it is a document extended with | information for transformations. Why not admit that and create a | schema that allows attributes (or elements) from the known | extension namespace (here prefixed dbhtml)?
For reasons 1-3 that I gave before. Besides, it *is* a DocBook document. No harm results from ignoring the PI.
| I've used an attribute here and not an element because this | parameter is actually an attribute of the list, not a member | thereof. That's also the wrong thing about PIs - it's usually | working as a switch acting "on the following siblings", not "on | the children of the switch" or "on the parent element of the | switch", both of which would IMHO be more XML-ish.
IMHO, siblings and children are equally accessible. Containment is useful, but not necessary.
| Alternatively, you could create an other file which would list | which variablelists should be formatted as tables, for example as | tuples of an XPath expression and a list format type. The | stylesheet could then heed that information. I think you might | have suggested this approach below, actually.
Yes, that's one out-of-band solution.
| You already said that you have to change your stylesheet to | check for that processing instruction, so I don't see why it | would be substantially worse to have to change the stylesheet to | check for a known element (or attribute) and not process it using | the default rules. If this is considerably more complex in XSLT | (or whatever you use), then it's a problem of XSLT, not of XML, I | think.
Because an unknown PI is likely to be ignored or transparently passed through. An unknown element is likely to screw all sorts of things up (like the count of element children, the preceding and following elements of its siblings, etc.).
In other words, I have to change my single stylesheet to *look for* the PI. This is very different from changing *every stylesheet* *to ignore* the namespaced element.
| If you decided to throw away XML's namespace extensibility in | *all* your stylesheets (by adding the default rules copying and | quoting the tags into the result document), well, you've closed | one door before yourselves.
Extensibility is a good thing. I certainly make use of it. It does not follow that uncontrolled extensibility is appropriate in every context.
Be seeing you, norm
-- Norm...@Sun.COM | As charms are nonsense, nonsense is a XML Standards Engineer | charm.--Benjamin Franklin XML Technology Center | Sun Microsystems, Inc. |