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62 messages in org.codehaus.groovy.devRe: [groovy-dev] Groovy performance: ...| From | Sent On | Attachments |
|---|---|---|
| Alex Tkachman | Feb 19, 2008 2:09 am | |
| Steven Devijver | Feb 19, 2008 2:37 am | |
| Alexandru Popescu ☀ | Feb 19, 2008 2:57 am | |
| Alex Tkachman | Feb 19, 2008 3:03 am | |
| Patric Bechtel | Feb 19, 2008 3:12 am | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 19, 2008 3:25 am | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 19, 2008 3:26 am | |
| Patric Bechtel | Feb 19, 2008 5:05 am | |
| Gavin Grover | Feb 19, 2008 5:51 am | |
| Steven Devijver | Feb 19, 2008 5:52 am | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 19, 2008 5:54 am | |
| Tom Nichols | Feb 19, 2008 6:26 am | |
| Alex Tkachman | Feb 19, 2008 6:28 am | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 19, 2008 6:35 am | |
| Tom Nichols | Feb 19, 2008 7:03 am | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 19, 2008 7:38 am | |
| Chanwit Kaewkasi | Feb 19, 2008 7:52 am | |
| Charles Oliver Nutter | Feb 19, 2008 8:49 am | |
| Steven Devijver | Feb 19, 2008 10:03 am | |
| Charles Oliver Nutter | Feb 19, 2008 11:38 am | |
| Steven Devijver | Feb 19, 2008 12:11 pm | |
| Alex Tkachman | Feb 19, 2008 12:39 pm | |
| Alex Tkachman | Feb 19, 2008 12:48 pm | |
| tugwilson | Feb 19, 2008 1:36 pm | |
| Alex Tkachman | Feb 19, 2008 8:51 pm | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 20, 2008 2:10 am | |
| Jochen Theodorou | Feb 20, 2008 9:46 am | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 20, 2008 5:25 pm | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 21, 2008 1:35 am | |
| Tom Nichols | Feb 21, 2008 4:15 am | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 21, 2008 5:44 am | |
| Tom Nichols | Feb 21, 2008 6:22 am | |
| Smith, Jason, CTR, OASD(HA)/TMA | Feb 21, 2008 6:34 am | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 21, 2008 6:43 am | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 21, 2008 6:48 am | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 21, 2008 7:04 am | |
| Smith, Jason, CTR, OASD(HA)/TMA | Feb 21, 2008 7:18 am | |
| Charles Oliver Nutter | Feb 21, 2008 7:38 am | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 21, 2008 7:42 am | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 21, 2008 8:36 am | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 21, 2008 8:48 am | |
| Pascal DeMilly | Feb 21, 2008 5:35 pm | |
| Gavin Grover | Feb 21, 2008 6:21 pm | |
| Jochen Theodorou | Feb 22, 2008 4:31 am | |
| Tom Nichols | Feb 22, 2008 4:49 am | |
| Charles Oliver Nutter | Feb 22, 2008 11:43 pm | |
| Guillaume Laforge | Feb 23, 2008 12:28 am | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 23, 2008 3:51 am | |
| Jochen Theodorou | Feb 23, 2008 2:49 pm | |
| Jochen Theodorou | Feb 23, 2008 2:53 pm | |
| Charles Oliver Nutter | Feb 24, 2008 2:01 am | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 24, 2008 3:56 am | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 24, 2008 4:11 am | |
| Charles Oliver Nutter | Feb 24, 2008 5:12 am | |
| Jochen Theodorou | Feb 24, 2008 3:17 pm | |
| Jochen Theodorou | Feb 24, 2008 3:31 pm | |
| Alexandru Popescu ☀ | Feb 24, 2008 3:36 pm | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 26, 2008 2:20 pm | |
| Martin C. Martin | Feb 26, 2008 3:15 pm | |
| Jochen Theodorou | Feb 27, 2008 2:38 am | |
| Jochen Theodorou | Feb 27, 2008 3:03 am | |
| Martin C. Martin | Mar 2, 2008 5:21 pm |

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| Subject: | Re: [groovy-dev] Groovy performance: what to do | Actions... |
|---|---|---|
| From: | Guillaume Laforge (glaf...@gmail.com) | |
| Date: | Feb 19, 2008 5:54:08 am | |
| List: | org.codehaus.groovy.dev | |
On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Patric Bechtel <patr...@gmail.com> wrote:
[...] I'm not sure if this is really true. So far, there's plenty of Java programmers out there who would *love* to use Groovy if there was more compile time checking involved. But, and I understand that, that's not possible as long as everything is super-dynamic. It's not that I don't appreciate that, it's very very nice. Really. But as even a typo in a variable goes unnoticed by the compiler, it's annoying compared to Java to prototype an algorithm. So, sometimes, it would be nice to make the compiler more strict, so that less things go unnoticed into runtime failures. I can speak only for my colleagues and me, as we currently use yet another "alternative" language for Java development, and as syntax is already very similar, a switch to or coexistence with Groovy would be, given the possibilities of Groovy, very nice.
Regarding more 'strictness', I think you'd be more interested in this approach suggested by Graeme recently: http://groovy.markmail.org/message/b65lr6u3ejkwt3kq
To emphasize my point: It's less the speed (though welcome, but we are not doing raw numeric calculations anyway), it's the convenience and the confidence of getting the source through compile stage (we are not using an IDE) and being able to concentrate onto the algorithm itself. Maybe we should think about the @Typed annotation as tip to the compiler for stricter checks? Or we rename it and leave it to future compiler versions to optimize differently according to this setting?
These kind of checks are also the job of the IDE, so that it gives you warnings where you're doing something which is off the usual static typing limits that Java developers are used to. The compiler could also provide some additional checks, when certain flags or options are activated. Although in those cases, it's probably because you're coding Java in Groovy :-)
At least, we have to pick up the majority of java programmers where they currently are, and not where you wish them to be. I'm a strong advocate of Groovy and use it wherever I can and urge others to do the same. But given a bridge to static typed minds to get to Groovy dynamic worlds would help them come over...
Groovy is not just Java plus a couple of features like closures or native syntax for lists and maps. Groovy's goals go further than this, and if we would limit its abilities to stay within the usual limits, we wouldn't have frameworks like Grails, or we wouldn't be able to create Domain-Specific Languages. Fortunately, Groovy gives Java developers a rather flat learning curve, and as you learn Groovy, you come to use and love more advanced features and capabilities.
-- Guillaume Laforge Groovy Project Manager G2One, Inc. Vice-President Technology http://www.g2one.com
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