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83 messages in org.w3.www-tagRe: draft findings on Unsafe Methods ...| From | Sent On | Attachments |
|---|---|---|
| Dan Connolly | Apr 15, 2002 8:50 am | |
| Larry Masinter | Apr 15, 2002 1:44 pm | |
| David Orchard | Apr 15, 2002 3:01 pm | |
| David Orchard | Apr 15, 2002 3:19 pm | |
| Mark Baker | Apr 15, 2002 8:00 pm | |
| Keith Moore | Apr 15, 2002 8:37 pm | |
| Scott Cantor | Apr 15, 2002 9:28 pm | |
| Edwin Khodabakchian | Apr 15, 2002 9:34 pm | |
| David Orchard | Apr 15, 2002 10:18 pm | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 15, 2002 11:17 pm | |
| Tim Bray | Apr 15, 2002 11:32 pm | |
| Mark Nottingham | Apr 16, 2002 1:01 am | |
| Tim Bray | Apr 16, 2002 1:02 am | |
| Mark Nottingham | Apr 16, 2002 1:09 am | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 16, 2002 2:11 am | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 16, 2002 3:02 am | |
| Mark Baker | Apr 16, 2002 4:54 am | |
| Williams, Stuart | Apr 16, 2002 8:22 am | |
| Keith Moore | Apr 16, 2002 8:32 am | |
| jon...@research.att.com | Apr 16, 2002 8:44 am | |
| Scott Cantor | Apr 16, 2002 8:55 am | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 16, 2002 9:40 am | |
| Mark Nottingham | Apr 16, 2002 9:42 am | |
| Hutchison, Nigel | Apr 16, 2002 9:43 am | |
| Henrik Frystyk Nielsen | Apr 16, 2002 10:48 am | |
| Bullard, Claude L (Len) | Apr 16, 2002 1:46 pm | |
| Larry Masinter | Apr 16, 2002 6:39 pm | |
| Roy T. Fielding | Apr 16, 2002 7:54 pm | |
| Larry Masinter | Apr 16, 2002 10:10 pm | |
| Graham Klyne | Apr 17, 2002 1:54 am | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 18, 2002 12:33 am | |
| Graham Klyne | Apr 18, 2002 9:11 am | |
| Alex Rousskov | Apr 18, 2002 9:30 am | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 18, 2002 9:45 am | |
| Graham Klyne | Apr 18, 2002 11:58 am | |
| Roy T. Fielding | Apr 18, 2002 3:11 pm | |
| Don Box | Apr 18, 2002 6:28 pm | |
| Mark Baker | Apr 18, 2002 8:50 pm | |
| Keith Moore | Apr 18, 2002 8:54 pm | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 18, 2002 10:00 pm | |
| Graham Klyne | Apr 19, 2002 12:53 am | |
| Bill de hÓra | Apr 19, 2002 4:18 am | |
| Roy T. Fielding | Apr 19, 2002 1:20 pm | |
| Anne Thomas Manes | Apr 22, 2002 3:23 pm | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 22, 2002 4:01 pm | |
| Anne Thomas Manes | Apr 22, 2002 8:17 pm | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 22, 2002 10:21 pm | |
| Anne Thomas Manes | Apr 23, 2002 5:36 am | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 23, 2002 12:03 pm | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 23, 2002 2:09 pm | |
| Roy T. Fielding | Apr 23, 2002 2:14 pm | |
| Bullard, Claude L (Len) | Apr 23, 2002 2:50 pm | |
| Joshua Allen | Apr 23, 2002 2:53 pm | |
| David Orchard | Apr 23, 2002 4:14 pm | |
| Keith Moore | Apr 23, 2002 5:05 pm | |
| Roy T. Fielding | Apr 23, 2002 5:14 pm | |
| Simon St.Laurent | Apr 23, 2002 5:18 pm | |
| Larry Masinter | Apr 23, 2002 6:31 pm | |
| Mark Baker | Apr 23, 2002 6:36 pm | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 23, 2002 8:03 pm | |
| Tim Bray | Apr 23, 2002 8:30 pm | |
| Dan Connolly | Apr 23, 2002 9:05 pm | |
| Joshua Allen | Apr 23, 2002 9:10 pm | |
| Anne Thomas Manes | Apr 23, 2002 9:28 pm | |
| Mark Nottingham | Apr 23, 2002 9:42 pm | |
| Jeff Bone | Apr 23, 2002 9:42 pm | |
| Joshua Allen | Apr 23, 2002 10:02 pm | |
| Paul Prescod | Apr 23, 2002 10:05 pm | |
| Joshua Allen | Apr 23, 2002 10:27 pm | |
| Joshua Allen | Apr 23, 2002 10:38 pm | |
| Mark Nottingham | Apr 23, 2002 10:57 pm | |
| Mark Nottingham | Apr 23, 2002 11:16 pm | |
| Joshua Allen | Apr 23, 2002 11:20 pm | |
| Dan Connolly | Apr 23, 2002 11:23 pm | |
| Tim Bray | Apr 23, 2002 11:56 pm | |
| Bullard, Claude L (Len) | Apr 24, 2002 7:23 am | |
| Larry Masinter | Apr 24, 2002 8:47 am | |
| Keith Moore | Apr 24, 2002 10:46 am | |
| Bullard, Claude L (Len) | Apr 24, 2002 10:56 am | |
| Aaron Swartz | Apr 24, 2002 11:27 am | |
| Mike Dierken | Apr 24, 2002 12:06 pm | |
| David Orchard | Apr 25, 2002 10:54 am | |
| Roy T. Fielding | May 5, 2002 3:38 am |

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| Subject: | Re: draft findings on Unsafe Methods (whenToUseGet-7) | Actions... |
|---|---|---|
| From: | Paul Prescod (pa...@prescod.net) | |
| Date: | Apr 18, 2002 12:33:42 am | |
| List: | org.w3.www-tag | |
Graham Klyne wrote:
...
This suggests two possible ideas of "safe":
- an operation that has no (externally visible) side effects
It isn't about visibility. We're not talking about programming languages. I think that the HTTP specification is clear that it is about *responsibility*.
"Naturally, it is not possible to ensure that the server does not generate side-effects as a result of performing a GET request; in fact, some dynamic resources consider that a feature. The important distinction here is that the user did not request the side-effects, so therefore cannot be held accountable for them."
A safe operation is one that a service provider commits to executing over and over, anytime, or more than once, or never. It's a contract that says that the user will never be penalized in any way for executing the method.
Safety is important because when a program processes hypertext (in the general sense of nodes with arcs), it may follow arcs over and over again, whenever it feels like, and may pass node references to other processes which will also follow arcs over and over again, whenever THEY feel like it. You cannot do that if the act of following an arc may have an implicit constraint like: "you should only follow it once, or only after following that other arc in the last five minutes."
That's why Roy is right that labeling the operation *after the fact* is almost always a waste of time.
- an operation that is idempotent: has no further side effects if repeated after it has been performed once
The HTTP specification uses the term idempotent to mean idempotent.
http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec9.html#sec9.1.2
PUT is safe but not idempotent.
In the context of GET, I think the first is desired/needed.
Agreed.
Paul Prescod







