| From | Sent On | Attachments |
|---|---|---|
| Armand Turpel | Feb 14, 2012 12:41 am | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 14, 2012 1:01 pm | |
| Armand Turpel | Feb 15, 2012 12:59 am | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 15, 2012 1:50 am | |
| Paul Kirk | Feb 15, 2012 1:55 am | |
| greg whitbread | Feb 15, 2012 5:05 am | |
| Chris Thompson | Feb 15, 2012 8:03 am | |
| David Patterson | Feb 15, 2012 8:07 am | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 15, 2012 9:12 am | |
| Doug Yanega | Feb 15, 2012 10:40 am | |
| Paul Kirk | Feb 15, 2012 10:51 am | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 15, 2012 11:23 am | |
| Armand Turpel | Feb 15, 2012 11:39 am | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 15, 2012 12:47 pm | |
| Jim Croft | Feb 15, 2012 1:06 pm | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 15, 2012 5:49 pm | |
| Tony...@csiro.au | Feb 15, 2012 7:19 pm | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 15, 2012 10:18 pm | |
| Jim Croft | Feb 15, 2012 10:29 pm | |
| Armand Turpel | Feb 16, 2012 5:12 am | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 16, 2012 8:24 am | |
| Doug Yanega | Feb 16, 2012 9:45 am | |
| Chuck Miller | Feb 16, 2012 11:57 am | |
| Bradley Boyle | Feb 16, 2012 2:45 pm | |
| Richard Zander | Feb 16, 2012 3:10 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 16, 2012 3:24 pm | |
| Frederick W. Schueler | Feb 16, 2012 3:31 pm | |
| Chuck Miller | Feb 16, 2012 4:14 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 16, 2012 4:28 pm | |
| Chris Thompson | Feb 16, 2012 7:05 pm | |
| Kim van der Linde | Feb 16, 2012 7:13 pm | |
| Neal Evenhuis | Feb 16, 2012 7:27 pm | |
| Kim van der Linde | Feb 16, 2012 7:38 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 16, 2012 7:40 pm | |
| muscapaul | Feb 17, 2012 12:16 am | |
| Dr Brian Taylor | Feb 17, 2012 12:23 am | |
| Armand Turpel | Feb 17, 2012 1:25 am | |
| Chris Thompson | Feb 17, 2012 7:03 am | |
| Chris Thompson | Feb 17, 2012 11:23 am | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 17, 2012 1:09 pm | |
| Chris Thompson | Feb 17, 2012 2:04 pm | |
| Tony...@csiro.au | Feb 17, 2012 2:32 pm | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 17, 2012 2:51 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 17, 2012 3:16 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 17, 2012 3:18 pm | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 17, 2012 3:22 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 17, 2012 3:37 pm | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 17, 2012 5:06 pm | |
| Tony...@csiro.au | Feb 17, 2012 5:18 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 17, 2012 5:27 pm | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 17, 2012 7:39 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 17, 2012 8:04 pm | |
| Richard Zander | Feb 18, 2012 9:26 am | |
| Richard Zander | Feb 18, 2012 9:59 am | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 18, 2012 11:33 am | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 18, 2012 6:45 pm | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 18, 2012 8:59 pm | |
| Paul van Rijckevorsel | Feb 19, 2012 12:36 am | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 19, 2012 5:48 am | |
| Paul van Rijckevorsel | Feb 19, 2012 7:36 am | |
| Roderic Page | Feb 19, 2012 8:09 am | |
| Paul van Rijckevorsel | Feb 19, 2012 8:58 am | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 19, 2012 8:59 am | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 19, 2012 9:49 am | |
| Frederick W. Schueler | Feb 19, 2012 10:29 am | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 19, 2012 12:14 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 12:45 pm | |
| Bob Mesibov | Feb 19, 2012 2:23 pm | |
| Walker, Ken | Feb 19, 2012 2:36 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 2:38 pm | |
| Bob Mesibov | Feb 19, 2012 2:54 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 2:56 pm | |
| Walker, Ken | Feb 19, 2012 3:08 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 4:05 pm | |
| Bob Mesibov | Feb 19, 2012 4:07 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 4:38 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 5:09 pm | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 19, 2012 5:18 pm | |
| Bob Mesibov | Feb 19, 2012 5:33 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 5:50 pm | |
| Kenneth Kinman | Feb 19, 2012 7:27 pm | |
| Weakley, Alan | Feb 19, 2012 7:47 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 7:50 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 7:52 pm | |
| Curtis Clark | Feb 19, 2012 8:13 pm | |
| Stephen Thorpe | Feb 19, 2012 8:22 pm | |
| Dr.B.J.Tindall | Feb 19, 2012 11:08 pm | |
| Paul van Rijckevorsel | Feb 19, 2012 11:52 pm | |
| Paul van Rijckevorsel | Feb 19, 2012 11:56 pm | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 20, 2012 1:02 am | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 20, 2012 1:24 am | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 20, 2012 1:27 am | |
| Richard Pyle | Feb 20, 2012 1:32 am | |
| 37 later messages | ||
| Subject: | Re: [Taxacom] validation of taxon names | |
|---|---|---|
| From: | Richard Pyle (deep...@bishopmuseum.org) | |
| Date: | Feb 17, 2012 2:51:20 pm | |
| List: | edu.ku.nhm.mailman.taxacom | |
I SO don't have time to engage on this (apologies to all who have sent me emails to which I have not yet responded), but as this is a topic that is near & dear to me, I can no longer resist. A few random comments:
Doug wrote:
Second, if one has a master list of all published names, simply annotating that name X was, in year N, synonymized with name Y by author Z does NOT tell you whether name X is *presently* treated as valid.
Absolutely! But I'll take it a step further: the question: "Is name X presently treated as valid?" has no answer, as such. Without qualification of what is meant by "presently", and without some indication of by whom a name is treated as valid or not, this is a question that can only be answered in shades of gray (or spectra of RGB, if you prefer).
This relates to Chuck's comment:
But, the sticky wicket comes when point 6 is posed: "Which of all the related names is the best one to use to refer to the organism right now"? The issue of best is invariably subjective.
I think the only realistic path forward for taxonomic professionals is a graphic representation of the history of how names are treated, along the lines of what Ryan Schenk has put together (http://synynyms.no.de/). For the non-taxonomist who wants a single answer, I think there are only two options:
1) select a specific "meta-authority" (e.g., Catalogue of Life) to represent the "whom".; or
2) Develop an "I'm Feeling Lucky" algorithm (analogous to Google's feature of the same name) that can essentially review a broad spectrum of criteria (how the name has been treated over time, influenced by various objective "quality" metrics related to the published works and authors of such, etc.) that effectively produces two results: a) The name that rises to the top of the "I'm Feeling Lucky" algorithm; and b) Some sort of confidence value that indicates whether the name is essentially stable and universal (e.g., Homo sapiens), or is the subject of recent and un-settled debate (many examples)
Richard Zander wrote:
Yes, deciding which name is "correct" ("valid" for botanists) is a problem for those not familiar with the subject matter.
I think the parenthetical should have been '("valid" for zoologists)' ... "valid" in botany is more akin to "available" in zoology (i.e., "validly published").
And further:
One might make an analogy with scientific theorization in other fields. Which theory is right, photon or wave? Is the world round or flat? Is the red shift a property of an expanding universe or a function of decreasing energy associated with intervening gravity wells? Is the value of pi different if you have a large enough circle, like one around the whole universe? Is the black maple a species or only a variety of the sugar maple?
But only one of these questions has scope only in the context of human brains....the others are questions that exist outside the existence of humans. But maybe we'd best not go there....again....
Stephen wrote:
bioinformaticians like Jim Croft are somewhat stuck between a rock and a hard place, for they just want to list all taxonomic opinions on a taxon objectively, but what are they going to call the taxon??
I don't think that Jim "just" wants this (index of existing taxonomic opinions). Rather, he (correctly!) recognizes that this is a critical component in the right direction, and one that is far more tractable informatically than most of the passionate debates that pass through this email forum.
Note that I agree that the publications of Hoser or whoever should be noted in relation to the taxon, but I am denying that there is any compulsion to accept as the "currently valid name" one of Hoser's opinions just because it was published 5 minutes *after* some reputable scientist made a different call ...
This sounds a bit like a straw man. I've not yet met anyone who actually thinks that the most recent assertion about a taxon is, by default, the "correct" one.
to answer these sorts of questions requires a *vast* amount of work, checking names against the original primary literature, work that is increasingly difficult to get funded ...
YES!! This is the KEY point, I think, for this entire discussion. The trick is: how do we make the outside world understand (first) the importance of biodiversity, and (second) the importance good taxonomy within that realm?
And, saving the best for last....
Rod wrote:
But if you have LOTS of names then having a local of the data copy is great. CouchDB is a wonderful tool, especially for semi-structured data. It excels at some things, but bulk checking of names probably isn't one of them (you'd probably get more joy doing an SQL join in a relational database then handing the names that don't match).
YES! THANK YOU! This is *exactly* the point I have believed and (to a lesser extent) have been preaching for years now. My vision for the architecture of data components of GNA is, and has been, EXACTLY along these lines. I only hope it's feasible to implement (I already know it's feasible from a technical perspective; but it's not clear yet whether it will be feasible from a socio-political perspective...)
Aloha, Rich
This message is only intended for the addressee named above. Its contents may
be privileged or otherwise protected. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or
copying of this message or its contents is prohibited. If you have received
this message by mistake, please notify us immediately by reply mail or by
collect telephone call. Any personal opinions expressed in this message do not
necessarily represent the views of the Bishop Museum.
_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List Taxa...@mailman.nhm.ku.edu http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
The Taxacom archive going back to 1992 may be searched with either of these
methods:
(1) by visiting http://taxacom.markmail.org
(2) a Google search specified as: site:mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom
your search terms here





