On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Russel Winder <russ...@concertant.com> wrote:

I'm not too much convinced considering all the people I know and heard of using Groovy without Grails, and all their use cases. This is far from the truth, and I'm not sure how you can say that "the world" thing that, unless you're ubiquituous and omniscient :-) But you may well be ;-)

I don't deny it at all. The more use cases we can show people, the better. But I'm usually not for the sake of change just for the sake of change.

So, if you think so, just go ahead a create a full Gradle build for Groovy. I'm totally fine with that, and I think it's going to be the best way to see how better Gradle can be for Groovy.

But I expected you had some good arguments without needing such work to be done beforehand. I suspect neither of Hans nor you would have started Gant or Gradle without having good reasons to do so.

I should certainly be stricter here and there, but I don't want to frighten people and make them flee away and stop contributing altogether. It's hard to find the right dose of strictness / inertia, and the right portion of freedom of innovation. Furthermore contributors and committers have their qualities and defects: some are awesome coders but bad documenters, others are good at everything, some are good at giving vision but fail to think about all corner cases, some don't have so little time to contribute, etc. It's not easy.

Go ahead, and both write a Gradle build and commit it. That's great and we'll be able to judge more easily what's best to do with the current build.

Agreed. So far no decision has be pre-made. It's just that I know the fate of some similar efforts (ie. the Maven 2 build for instance): nobody really took time to properly evaluate it, despite the time spent by Jason to bring it to life. If he had known beforehand, perhaps he'd have better used his time to contribute to other areas of Groovy. That's why I wanted to be convinced before seeing any actual new build, as I expected you had good technical arguments to make your point.

So +1 for contributing a Gradle build.